052/052B Class Destroyers

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

But it is a silly idea to build two carriers at a time (in fact, the whole way the British have handled and are handling their carrier programme is exceedingly silly), since it will create a massive block obsolescence problem some fourty years hence.

I am sure that the USN regrets that the happy Reagan years allowed them to commission no less than four NIMITZ class carriers (CVN 72 - 75) between 1989 and 1998. With at best one carrier built every five years, it is difficult to see how they can all be replaced.

I am sure that the Chinese will take a more prudent course, taking their time to build carriers one by one.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Well pretty soon we will see a carrier strike group from the Royal Navy which will make he Americans mouths water

A QE Class Carrier
Type 26 FFG
Type 45 DDG
Astute Class SSN
MARS replenishment tanker

On top of F35 and V22 aircraft, And let's not forget the DDG is known to have the capability to down any known anti-ship missile

And there will be 2 carrier battle groups rom to to bottom all brand spanking new!

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Im a little confused by these recent post. Are the destroyers being built in two different shipyards? How many destroyers are actually being built right now?

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

asif iqbal said:

Well pretty soon we will see a carrier strike group from the Royal Navy which will make he Americans mouths water

A QE Class Carrier
Type 26 FFG
Type 45 DDG
Astute Class SSN
MARS replenishment tanker

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None of these ships individually nor the sum of these ships would make the USN's mouth water. Any USN carrier strike group would be superior to that assemblage listed above. These are good ships no doubt, but to induce mouth-watering envy from the USN you would have to do better than that.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

asif iqbal said:

Well pretty soon we will see a carrier strike group from the Royal Navy which will make he Americans mouths water

A QE Class Carrier
Type 26 FFG
Type 45 DDG
Astute Class SSN
MARS replenishment tanker

On top of F35 and V22 aircraft, And let's not forget the DDG is known to have the capability to down any known anti-ship missile

And there will be 2 carrier battle groups rom to to bottom all brand spanking new!

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Don't be too sure about the capability to "down any known anti-ship missile", a lot of factors could go wrong.

The same claimed by the British navy of HMS Sheffield DDG before the Falkland/Malvinas war ..... so talk is cheap

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Totoro said:

But the most curious thing is the hole on the side, also blurred. I can't think of any combat ship of destroyer class with a side door that large. It could very well mean the whole ship is not a combat ship, or it could point out that the whole stern section is an empty, (modular?) area, not unlike ones in LCS ships, where it could serve for various purposes, including having a large rear side ramp. Again, though, why put something like that on a destroyer sized ship?

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It's not a door, it's the cross section of another module, there are two separate modules in the picture.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Mysterre said:

None of these ships individually nor the sum of these ships would make the USN's mouth water. Any USN carrier strike group would be superior to that assemblage listed above. These are good ships no doubt, but to induce mouth-watering envy from the USN you would have to do better than that.

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Maybe you want to ask the captains of the Areigh Burke and And the rest of Carrier strike group one and nine which excersized with HMS Daring maybe Jeff has more feedback

PNS Babur just came back after working with HMS Daring and they said the ship is nothing like they have seen before, it's a extremely j
High profile ship and for good reason

A single Type 45 is known to detect from land to objects in the outer atmosphere, when the threat of anti-missile is high in the Persian Gulf Type 45 was sent in to cover USN, infact it could probably protect a entire task force on its own, SAMPSON is the result of 20 years work by BAE

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

asif iqbal said:

Maybe you want to ask the captains of the Areigh Burke and And the rest of Carrier strike group one and nine which excersized with HMS Daring maybe Jeff has more feedback

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Maybe you want to show me where they said anything to the effect that they would rather have a Daring than a Burke or Ticonderoga. Make my day.

asif iqbal said:

infact it could probably protect a entire task force on its own

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So can a Burke or a Ticonderoga, and they could do it better. Burkes have up to 96 VLS cells, Ticos up to 128. This underestimates the true number of missiles due to quad-packing of ESSM's. These VLS cells contain an assortment of all-up rounds for AAW, ASW, ABM, and strike that the Daring's SYLVER in its wildest fantasies could not hope to match, with its pitiful 48 cells for single-packed Aster 15 and Aster 30 AAW missiles. SM-2MR Block IIIB (the current standard) and Block IV outclasses the Aster 30 and ESSM outclasses the Aster 15. The Aster 30's active terminal homing is mostly negated by the SM-2's need for only brief terminal illumination as well as Block IIIB's addition of an infrared seeker. The SM-3's ABM performance outclasses that of the Aster 30. When the ERAM/SM-6 gets put into more ships, it will massively outclass the Aster 30. VLA has no equivalent in the Daring. The SPY-1/Aegis/CEC combo is mature and has gone through numerous iterations while the SAMPSON AESA is untested and is also just a rotating dual-planar radar, which introduces the possibility of a single-point failure (the rotating mechanism) which the Burkes and Ticos do not have. It is not at all clear to the common person whether PAAMS is as sophisticated or as comprehensive as Aegis, or whether the RN's data networking capabilities have the degree of integration that CEC provides the USN. The Daring's only possible advantage over the Burke and the Tico is its ballistic missile detection capability. However, that is already in the process of being rectified with the Aegis BMD upgrade currently spreading through all the ships during refits. I could easily go on and on into more minutiae, but you should probably review the capabilities of these USN ships again before you get too excited about the Daring class.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

asif iqbal said:

Well pretty soon we will see a carrier strike group from the Royal Navy which will make he Americans mouths water

A QE Class Carrier
Type 26 FFG
Type 45 DDG
Astute Class SSN
MARS replenishment tanker

On top of F35 and V22 aircraft, And let's not forget the DDG is known to have the capability to down any known anti-ship missile

And there will be 2 carrier battle groups rom to to bottom all brand spanking new!

Click to expand...

That will be an impressive carrier group and I look forward to the UK having it, though normally they will field only one at a time.

But the US forces at the time will be equal to or exceeding these capabilities in allarea.

The Ford class carrier will simply have no equal, in terms of airwing, or in terms of capabilities to sortie, or electrical capailitess, or endurance, etc., etc.. The F-35B, though far better than the Harriers it is replacing, will be far weaker than the Super Hornets or the F-35C which will both have much longer range and carry weight in terms of amount and variety of ordinance. The E-2D will be a couple of orders of magnitude better than the Helo AEW employed by the UK ccarriers. Even if they get a EV-22 AEW aircraft (which I sincerely hope they do) though it will dramatically improve the UK capability, it will still not be close to the E-2D..

The new Flight III Burkes will be the equal of the Type 45, IMHO, in the air defense capability...though there may be a few specs the Darings exceeed the Burkes in, the ability of the Burkes to fight together or with allies, and to coordinate the battle space is unequaled...they simply have decades of experience where the Darings are brand new to that game.

The Viriginia SSNs are the equal of the Astutes.

And instead of a Type 26 FFG the US will have a couple of Flight IIA Burke DDGs as a part of their group which will exceed the capabilities of the FFGs.

Do not get me wrong, these will be very modern and very capable ships...but the US will have something like 70 modern DDGs at that point and 10 much larger and more capable carriers.

No doubt, the Darings are a very welcome addition to the UK, and to the alliance overall...and the capabilities they have technically are world class. But they're new and yet to be fully integrated or exploited and that will take years of experience, and there are only 6 of them In addition AEGIS is no sitting still and has already added, or is adding capabnilities thaat meet or exceed the Darings in virtually every area.

I'm jusy glad we are close allies and will be working together. The UK battle groups will be a serious threat to any adversary all the same and I am glad, and pleased to see them "with us." Any enemy would not be pleased to see one of those groups confronting them.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

asif iqbal said:

UK is making two carriers which will enter service within two are of each other, no doubt it has been done

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OT
Building two carriers at the same time as the UK is doing is irresponsible. Think of UK finances in the future. See for example

Efforts to save money on this project leads to more waste. See
China has a much more modern infrastructure and doesn't need to build modules all over the place and transport them at great cost to the place the ships are assembled. And how much experience do the British designers have? The last large British aircraft carriers were built before the Foch and the Clemanceau and see what trouble the French had with CdG. I cannot think that the experience with the through deck cruisers provided a sufficient channel for the transfer of know how over half a century.