re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer
Well I'd be interested in seeing a hi res or above shot of that area to see what it really is.
Well I'd be interested in seeing a hi res or above shot of that area to see what it really is.
052/052B Class Destroyers
- Thread starter tphuang
- Start date
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer
the admin at HSH gave a pencil drawing, its like a 4x8 cell.
the admin at HSH gave a pencil drawing, its like a 4x8 cell.
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer
I think Type 346 radar's appearance on 970 (891) predated 170 by about two years, it's probably the same time frame for 052D's appearance too.
I think Type 346 radar's appearance on 970 (891) predated 170 by about two years, it's probably the same time frame for 052D's appearance too.
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer
I have been a part of several Tea Party organizations and I can tell you from personal experience that the Koch brothers, as conservative as they may be or seem, had NOTHIONG to do witht he funding or organization of them. It has been a true grassroots upswing that produced 2010, not because of the Koch brothers, but because the people were sick of the way thingas are going. Watch for the same in 2012.
...and, oh yes, all statists and tyrant wanna-bes fear social mobility and are invested it keeping people, by and large down. The entire "War on Pverty/Great society" welfare system has been an example of this. Hasn't improved percentages at all...just guaranteed voting blocks. ...but, ie, make no mistake at all, they also fear the guns.
That is not a "wedge" issue, it is an unalienable right recognized by the founders for precisely this reason. Has nothing to do with hunting or sporting. Has everything to do with keeping large government honest. The old saying is..."we have the ballot box, let it work. Do not make us reach for the cartridge box". This simple principle pre-dates all of the modern progressive and power monger- driven politics because the King and his minions of that day, in principle were just like the power hungry of today and as Washington said, nothing but unadulterated force will keep them in line.
Now...let's get back to the Type 052 vessels because it is much safer, and also much more stable ground for discussion here on SD.
I believe the new radars are for the new Type 052Ds, but hopefully, the PLAN, like the US, is designing these to be able to be retrofitted onto the older vessels. Inf fact, depending on the measurement of any new hot launched missile packages, in a major refit, they could be retrofitted to the older vessels too. That would make much more sense for long term maintencance and total cost than maintianing eight vessels with two completely different sensor, guidance and weapons packages.
The US has done this time and again with the AEIGS and Standard Missile. It is what has allowed the Ticos and now the Burkes to be viable for so long and basically work just like the newer flights of vessels.
We'll see if the PLAN is thinking that way right now.
Once again...the politics needs to stop.
I have been a part of several Tea Party organizations and I can tell you from personal experience that the Koch brothers, as conservative as they may be or seem, had NOTHIONG to do witht he funding or organization of them. It has been a true grassroots upswing that produced 2010, not because of the Koch brothers, but because the people were sick of the way thingas are going. Watch for the same in 2012.
...and, oh yes, all statists and tyrant wanna-bes fear social mobility and are invested it keeping people, by and large down. The entire "War on Pverty/Great society" welfare system has been an example of this. Hasn't improved percentages at all...just guaranteed voting blocks. ...but, ie, make no mistake at all, they also fear the guns.
That is not a "wedge" issue, it is an unalienable right recognized by the founders for precisely this reason. Has nothing to do with hunting or sporting. Has everything to do with keeping large government honest. The old saying is..."we have the ballot box, let it work. Do not make us reach for the cartridge box". This simple principle pre-dates all of the modern progressive and power monger- driven politics because the King and his minions of that day, in principle were just like the power hungry of today and as Washington said, nothing but unadulterated force will keep them in line.
Now...let's get back to the Type 052 vessels because it is much safer, and also much more stable ground for discussion here on SD.
I believe the new radars are for the new Type 052Ds, but hopefully, the PLAN, like the US, is designing these to be able to be retrofitted onto the older vessels. Inf fact, depending on the measurement of any new hot launched missile packages, in a major refit, they could be retrofitted to the older vessels too. That would make much more sense for long term maintencance and total cost than maintianing eight vessels with two completely different sensor, guidance and weapons packages.
The US has done this time and again with the AEIGS and Standard Missile. It is what has allowed the Ticos and now the Burkes to be viable for so long and basically work just like the newer flights of vessels.
We'll see if the PLAN is thinking that way right now.
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Mysterre
Banned Idiot
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer
I own 4 firearms and have no problem with them being confiscated if the country decides the 2nd Amendment is no longer in its interests.
I doubt this will happen to the 052C's, unfortunately. Despite China and the Chinese military being flush with money, it doesn't look like the PLAN has the habit of upgrading its ships with every new toy. Otherwise we would have seen all those crappy HHQ-7's gone, along with the AK 630's.
Geographer
Junior Member
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer
Where were the gun-toting guardians of democracy when US citizens of Japanese descent were being rounded up and put in prison camps during World War II? Where were the gun-toting guardians of democracy when blacks were being lynched across the American South with collusion from local government? Where were the gun-toting guardians of democracy when poor Americans were being forced by their government to fight and die in Southeast Asia? Where are the gun-toting guardians of democracy when harmless Americans are being put in prison for smoking marijuana? Based on American history from the last 100 years, the constant threats of armed rebellion against the American government in defense of liberty are laughable.
Can you really imagine a situation in which an American citizen attacks the U.S. government building or employee and is not prosecuted with the full weight of the law? Anyone who attacks a U.S. government building or employee will not only be prosecuted and imprisoned for a long time, and possibly executed, no one will support them. The attacker will be demonized and abandoned. Look at what happens when abortion doctors are killed and abortion clinics are attacked. Even staunch abortion foes quickly condemn the attacks.
Tea Partiers bemoan the loss of freedom and expansion of government under President Obama, but where were they when the Patriot Act was passed and renewed? Where were they when Medicare Part D, the prescription drug coverage, was passed in 2003?
Armed rebellion and threats of rebellion have no place in modern America.
All this talk about a well-armed populace being the guardian of democracy sounds good but it's never been implemented, even when there were and are ongoing violations of human rights.
Where were the gun-toting guardians of democracy when US citizens of Japanese descent were being rounded up and put in prison camps during World War II? Where were the gun-toting guardians of democracy when blacks were being lynched across the American South with collusion from local government? Where were the gun-toting guardians of democracy when poor Americans were being forced by their government to fight and die in Southeast Asia? Where are the gun-toting guardians of democracy when harmless Americans are being put in prison for smoking marijuana? Based on American history from the last 100 years, the constant threats of armed rebellion against the American government in defense of liberty are laughable.
Can you really imagine a situation in which an American citizen attacks the U.S. government building or employee and is not prosecuted with the full weight of the law? Anyone who attacks a U.S. government building or employee will not only be prosecuted and imprisoned for a long time, and possibly executed, no one will support them. The attacker will be demonized and abandoned. Look at what happens when abortion doctors are killed and abortion clinics are attacked. Even staunch abortion foes quickly condemn the attacks.
Tea Partiers bemoan the loss of freedom and expansion of government under President Obama, but where were they when the Patriot Act was passed and renewed? Where were they when Medicare Part D, the prescription drug coverage, was passed in 2003?
Armed rebellion and threats of rebellion have no place in modern America.
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asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer
well in that case it does make sense to see the Type 052D at JN in 2014, as it is projected to be handed over in 2016 as per A.Mans list
also looking at the ASEA radar i dont think Type 052D will be a 10,000 ton destroyer/cruiser as many speculated before, it will probably be same or close to Type 052C but more advanced, the larger ship will be the Type 058 10,000+ ton cruiser which will then follow on after the first 4 x Type 052D are built or around ~2018
i could be wrong but more and more it is looking that way
which means Type 52C>Type 052D>Type 058
well in that case it does make sense to see the Type 052D at JN in 2014, as it is projected to be handed over in 2016 as per A.Mans list
also looking at the ASEA radar i dont think Type 052D will be a 10,000 ton destroyer/cruiser as many speculated before, it will probably be same or close to Type 052C but more advanced, the larger ship will be the Type 058 10,000+ ton cruiser which will then follow on after the first 4 x Type 052D are built or around ~2018
i could be wrong but more and more it is looking that way
which means Type 52C>Type 052D>Type 058
plawolf
Lieutenant General
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer
I kinda doubt they will still call it an 052 if it was 10,000t.
In all likelihood, the 052D would not be significantly larger or different from the 052Cs in terms of general layout. The main improvements will be in terms of the radars, internal systems and new universal VLS.
In a way, I have a feeling that the 052D may turn out to be another small batch experimental class similar to the 052B. The PLAN would not have ordered so many 052Cs if they knew a much better 052D was right around the corner.
If the 052D is to be the new gold standard PLAN DDG, I would have expected the second patch of 052Cs to only be 2 ships, which would have been more than enough to tide the PLAN over till 2016 even with the Varyag expected to become operational around than and the new destroyers needing a few years after that to become combat capable.
I would not be surprised at all if this rumored 052D turns out to be a completely new class of destroyer instead of an incremental improved on the 052C. The big 052C second batch order could thus be explained as the PLAN expecting the new class to need a good amount of time for testing and shake downs and would not be ready for operations or mass production for several years.
I kinda doubt they will still call it an 052 if it was 10,000t.
In all likelihood, the 052D would not be significantly larger or different from the 052Cs in terms of general layout. The main improvements will be in terms of the radars, internal systems and new universal VLS.
In a way, I have a feeling that the 052D may turn out to be another small batch experimental class similar to the 052B. The PLAN would not have ordered so many 052Cs if they knew a much better 052D was right around the corner.
If the 052D is to be the new gold standard PLAN DDG, I would have expected the second patch of 052Cs to only be 2 ships, which would have been more than enough to tide the PLAN over till 2016 even with the Varyag expected to become operational around than and the new destroyers needing a few years after that to become combat capable.
I would not be surprised at all if this rumored 052D turns out to be a completely new class of destroyer instead of an incremental improved on the 052C. The big 052C second batch order could thus be explained as the PLAN expecting the new class to need a good amount of time for testing and shake downs and would not be ready for operations or mass production for several years.
asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer
the reason they ordered another 6 x Type 052C could be because they spent the best part of 5 years learning from 150 and 151 and it proved a good dedicated platform like Type 054A, hence more the better
but 150 and 151 are now getting on, and by middle of this decade or end a newer more advanced DDG requirment comes in, which is filled by Type 052D
i think Type 052C is good but not great, but i have a feeling the Type 052D will be world class which is going to be put up there with the likes of the Type 45 DDGs
so having 8 x Type 052Cs are good, but also having a more advanced DDG is really the way forward, plus they will need time to get Type 052D sussed out and thats where the already serving Type 052Cs will come in handy
Type 052B was part of a big learning curve, i dont think PLAN will be making any new learning curves, now its batch production
the reason they ordered another 6 x Type 052C could be because they spent the best part of 5 years learning from 150 and 151 and it proved a good dedicated platform like Type 054A, hence more the better
but 150 and 151 are now getting on, and by middle of this decade or end a newer more advanced DDG requirment comes in, which is filled by Type 052D
i think Type 052C is good but not great, but i have a feeling the Type 052D will be world class which is going to be put up there with the likes of the Type 45 DDGs
so having 8 x Type 052Cs are good, but also having a more advanced DDG is really the way forward, plus they will need time to get Type 052D sussed out and thats where the already serving Type 052Cs will come in handy
Type 052B was part of a big learning curve, i dont think PLAN will be making any new learning curves, now its batch production