052/052B Class Destroyers

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

As a general rule, do members here think that the term 'Cruiser' is being phased out in the description of todays navies large surface combatants?

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Well, probably yes. Even in the US, when the TICONDEROGA class of cruisers (really AAW destroyers) are totally phased out by the end of the decade, there will be no cruisers in the USN (unless it comes to its senses and reclassifies the three ZUMWALT class destroyers, of which the third by the way will be named LYNDON B. JOHNSON - hardly the classical destroyer name) as cruisers.

Here in (continental) Western Europe, even destroyers have been done away with, with everything being frigates, even such classical AAW destroyers as the FORBIN/ANDREA DORIA and DE ZEVEN PROVINCIEN classes (the latter two traditional battleship/cruiser names).

The JMSDF of course surpasses everyone in misnomers with the HYUGA and 22DDH classes, especially as I understand that "destroyers" are in fact escorts in Japanese.

---------- Post added at 03:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:52 PM ----------

A.Man said:

The New Rumor: A Schedule For PLAN To Receive New DDG's

2012：1*052C
2013：2*052C
2014：2*052C
2015：1*052C
2016：1*052D
2017：2*052D
2018：2*052D
2019：2*052D
2020：1*052D

Click to expand...

Sounds reasonable and shows that construction is taking longer than expected, as we can see from 150, which was really expected in 2011 and is still sitting in the yard.

The original reported schedule (when the talk was of just 4 052D) was launches as follows:
052C
2010-1
2011-2
2012-1
052D
2013-1
2014-2
2015-1

Now 052D becomes a project for the next Five-Year Plan 2016-20.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

A.Man said:

Jiangnan #3 052C or DDG 150 Is Almost Ready For Delivery

A Photo Of #4 & #5 052C's

---------- Post added at 03:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:59 AM ----------

[/COLOR]The New Rumor: A Schedule For PLAN To Receive New DDG's

2012：1*052C
2013：2*052C
2014：2*052C
2015：1*052C
2016：1*052D
2017：2*052D
2018：2*052D
2019：2*052D
2020：1*052D

Click to expand...

With this delivery (Jiangnan #3 052C), how many 052C/++ will be in service (including original 2 052C) ?

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

franco-russe said:

Sounds reasonable and shows that construction is taking longer than expected, as we can see from 150, which was really expected in 2011 and is still sitting in the yard.

The original reported schedule (when the talk was of just 4 052D) was launches as follows:
052C
2010-1
2011-2
2012-1
052D
2013-1
2014-2
2015-1

Now 052D becomes a project for the next Five-Year Plan 2016-20.

Click to expand...

Yes Type 052D will most certainly be part of the next 5 year plan, strange that construction of the Type 052C is taking so long, the 3rd one seems to have been in yard ever since the 3rd Type 054A!! what is the rate determining step with these destroyers? the fitting out, very uncharacteristic of Chinese shipyards

things might get faster though, having 6 destroyers under construction is a serious undertaking, and when they shift to the Type 052D then we may see things little faster, by 2020 maybe 6 could be delivered

by 2015 all 8 Type 052Cs operational and by 2020 maybe 5-6 Type 052Ds, total destroyer fleet ~14- Type 052C/Ds, certainly not a bad tally

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

The move to Changxing island seriously affected Jiangnan's shipbuilding schedule, and in some ways, capabilities too, as many experienced workers refuse to relocate their families to Changxing, instead they chose to move to other yards such as HD or even the civilian yard Waigaoqiao. From reading people's blog it gives you the impression that the majority of people working there are newly graduated college and technical school students. This batch of 052C may as well be China's first surface combatants built mostly by people with no prior shipbuilding experience. This situation is clearly not ideal, but isn't necessary all bad, those guys are more likely to strictly follow the CAD drawings and are more willing to ask questions instead of overly relying on tribal knowledge.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Why did they move to the island?

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

They needed the space occupied by Jiangnan and Qiuxin Shipyards for the 2010 World Expo.

And evidently Changxingdao provided much better opportunities to build a vast modern shipyard than the banks of Huangpu River.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

asif iqbal said:

Why did they move to the island?

Click to expand...

Like franco-russe said space.

but more specifically tonnage.

The whole of Jiangnan groups makes most of its revenue from commericial ship building.

width of huangpu river at their section of the river and its depth at high tides puts a severe size limit on the size of the ship they can build from their existing facilities. basically everytime they launch/float out a big ship at their old facility on the huangpu river. they had to stop all river traffic. make sure the tides are at their highest. and has about 4-5 tug boats in place in case the big ship lost control and hit the bottom of the river or the other side of embankment. which is a heavily built up commerical area.

also the prime real estate it sits on, the city government of shanghai has been drooling at it for a long time. any apartment that has a river front view could easily sale for upwards of 50000 Yuan (little bit less than 10000$) PER-SQUARE-METER.
think about the profit margin.

The city government basically has made a deal that it will swap the tiny peice of land Jiangnan has been sitting on. with basically a little bit less then a quarter of Changxing island(!) plus a big fat check, plus a bridge to get to Changxing, plus a dedicated subway line. plus support doled out for schools and facilities for the worker community.

Expo is just a chance trade up. all the corprate sponsor and ticket sales paid for that expansion.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

A.Man said:

Jiangnan #3 052C or DDG 150 Is Almost Ready For Delivery

A Photo Of #4 & #5 052C's

---------- Post added at 03:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:59 AM ----------

The New Rumor: A Schedule For PLAN To Receive New DDG's

2012：1*052C
2013：2*052C
2014：2*052C
2015：1*052C
2016：1*052D
2017：2*052D
2018：2*052D
2019：2*052D
2020：1*052D

Click to expand...

So no rumored Type 58?

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

SinoSoldier said:

So no rumored Type 58?

Click to expand...

to be fair 058 would be considered a cruiser rather than destroyer...