052/052B Class Destroyers

hmmwv

Junior Member
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Globalsecurity and SP are probably as reliable as Mickey Mouse regarding Chinese military development, no matter how often they update the pages.

As I have said in the previous statement, PLAN is in a two or four engine dilemma, so the QC185 is designed to be more efficient but less powerful than the QC280 and four engines will be used to power future destroyers. QC280 is perfect for the 052C because the ship was forced to be designed around that engine, ideally PLAN wants a ship wider than the 052C but not as big as a Burke IIA, obvious two QC280 is underpowered, but four will be overkill, that's where the QC185 fit in. If 052D continues 052C's hull then the domestically sourced QC280 will be used, if not then chances are it'll be powered by QC185. I don't see any bottlenecks there.

BTW I envy your ability to identify engine origin by looking at smoke (not that I disagree with you about Varyag's engine).
 

escobar

Brigadier
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Third 052C pennant number confirmed

x2mkD.jpg
 

SinoSoldier

Colonel
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Something to keep in mind, since it's the most official thing regarding the future of PLA's destroyers that I've read.

Beijing to build large destroyers
Minnie Chan
Oct 09, 2009


Beijing plans to build a new generation of large destroyers as part of its effort to develop a modern blue- water navy, a report from an official ship-building institute shows.

The new generation of destroyers is important to China's long-term goal of building and operating aircraft carriers.

The destroyers will displace more than 10,000 tonnes, according to the report by the China Shipbuilding Information Centre - an institute under the China Shipbuilding Industry Corporation, the largest state-owned shipbuilder in China. In addition to commercial ships, China's state-owned shipbuilders also build warships.

"As China pursues the goal of building a high-seas naval force with far-reaching capabilities, it needs large-tonnage destroyers," Andrei Chang, editor-in-chief of the Kanwa Defence Review based in Canada, said. "Only heavy destroyers with more than 10,000 tonnes of displacement are capable of carrying new, supersonic anti-warship missiles with a striking range of 500 kilometres."

The report said the new destroyers would be another "trump card" for the PLA Navy. They would exceed the largest mainland-made destroyers in service by almost 4,000 tonnes, indicating an overall improvement in combat potential. The planned ship is even larger than the four 8,000-tonne Sovremenny class destroyers that Russia has sold to China.

While the Sovremenny destroyer was a typical cold war-era Soviet design, with a large profile that made it easily detectable by radar, the new destroyer would feature "fully developed stealth technology", the report said. Most of its weapons systems and sensors would not be exposed externally, making the ships harder to detect on radar.

The warship would also carry a large number of weapons systems and sensors, as well as sophisticated electronic warfare and defence equipment, the report said.

The most important of these was a new, supersonic anti-warship missile with a striking range of 500 kilometres. The report said the PLA hoped the new destroyers could close the gap in combat capability between the Chinese and Western navies.

On December 23 last year, defence ministry spokesman Huang Xueping said Beijing was "seriously considering" building a carrier to protect its national interests, ending a decade of speculation by overseas observers.
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

we will know probably before this year is out (maybe next) what the plan is

if we see a pretty much standard Type 052D which is most likely then this 10,000 ton is the Type 058 Cruiser, however if we see a larger 10,000 ton Type 052D then we are confused! but i dont think it will come to that
 

Lion

Senior Member
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

10,000tons destroyer with 500km supersonic antiship missile??? I thought china has already moved away from supersonic high speed anti-ship missile.. Take this report with a pinch of salt.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

10,000tons destroyer with 500km supersonic antiship missile??? I thought china has already moved away from supersonic high speed anti-ship missile.. Take this report with a pinch of salt.

+1

While I am a firm believer that PLAN will be moving to a 10k ton destroyer/cruiser type ship later this decade, this article (and it's "500 km supersonic anti ship missile") is not my basis.
 

kwaigonegin

Colonel
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

+1

While I am a firm believer that PLAN will be moving to a 10k ton destroyer/cruiser type ship later this decade, this article (and it's "500 km supersonic anti ship missile") is not my basis.

I think it's definitely within the realm of possibility for PLAN to employ a long range supersonic AshM in the near future. I know the SS-N 22 (on Sovremenny ) doesn't have a range anywhere close to that but I don't think it's too difficult for them to make a missile with extended range even if it means some speed sacrifice. Remember that the PLAN had significant input and was a partner in developing the 3M-80MBE/SS-N 22 which has a speed of over 3 Mach at sea level and actually has a tad longer range than the typical Russian SS-N 22.. Not unfeasible for them to develop a 300 miles range Mach 1.5 or 2 missile.
Anyway just my humble opinion.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

I think it's definitely within the realm of possibility for PLAN to employ a long range supersonic AshM in the near future. I know the SS-N 22 (on Sovremenny ) doesn't have a range anywhere close to that but I don't think it's too difficult for them to make a missile with extended range even if it means some speed sacrifice. Remember that the PLAN had significant input and was a partner in developing the 3M-80MBE/SS-N 22 which has a speed of over 3 Mach at sea level and actually has a tad longer range than the typical Russian SS-N 22.. Not unfeasible for them to develop a 300 miles range Mach 1.5 or 2 missile.
Anyway just my humble opinion.

Oh I don't think it's impossible for the PLA to have their institutes develop a 500 km supersonic AShM.

But whether they would need or want to is another matter. Such a missile, despite modern advances, will still be a mighty big thing (consider the tomahawk sized YJ-62 already has a 400 km range, imagine how large a missile would be to have similar ranges will flying at anywhere up to three times the speed?) and few navies are pursuing missiles of such size (it's more of a cold war relic tbh).
Then there's the fact that supersonic AShMs aren't necessarily better than subsonic in the first place, they're larger (already said), more expensive, they fly at much higher cruising altitudes compared to subsonic AShMs, and give out a greater IR signature etc.

Then again, only andrei chang mentions the "500 km AShM" in that article, and we all know how reliable he is. So the most we should take from it is that the PLAN will be looking at 10k+ ton DDGs/CGs, as should be expected.
 

kwaigonegin

Colonel
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Oh I don't think it's impossible for the PLA to have their institutes develop a 500 km supersonic AShM.

But whether they would need or want to is another matter. Such a missile, despite modern advances, will still be a mighty big thing (consider the tomahawk sized YJ-62 already has a 400 km range, imagine how large a missile would be to have similar ranges will flying at anywhere up to three times the speed?) and few navies are pursuing missiles of such size (it's more of a cold war relic tbh).
Then there's the fact that supersonic AShMs aren't necessarily better than subsonic in the first place, they're larger (already said), more expensive, they fly at much higher cruising altitudes compared to subsonic AShMs, and give out a greater IR signature etc.

Then again, only andrei chang mentions the "500 km AShM" in that article, and we all know how reliable he is. So the most we should take from it is that the PLAN will be looking at 10k+ ton DDGs/CGs, as should be expected.

yup.. I guess at the end of the day it all boils down to cost vs effectiveness. Does speed really make that much of a difference when you factor in the other negatives with supersonic missiles? Do CIWS or anti missile missile have a much harder time tracking and downing a Mach 3 missile vs a subsonic one? or does the IR signature, size etc negates the advantages of speed? New tech over the horizon may also play a role in diminishing the effectiveness of such weaponry. As rail gun technologies or even rocket assist projectiles improve it could concievably replace certain type of anti ship missiles as well.
 

A.Man

Major
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Jiangnan #3 052C or DDG 150 Is Almost Ready For Delivery

2000448b3jcrr6yf8pd6h6.jpg


A Photo Of #4 & #5 052C's

200332y9fteeejgsfe9vtd.jpg


---------- Post added at 03:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:59 AM ----------

The New Rumor: A Schedule For PLAN To Receive New DDG's

2012:1*052C
2013:2*052C
2014:2*052C
2015:1*052C
2016:1*052D
2017:2*052D
2018:2*052D
2019:2*052D
2020:1*052D
 
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