052/052B Class Destroyers

Re: DDG 052C Thread

Time to speculate. Possible 052D. From CDF.



052 D on the Chinese navy destroyers to attack the idea

2007-10-12 16:37:39
大中小
Tags: Chinese Navy destroyer, 052 d 052-ship goal of the Chinese Navy destroyer main ship
052 of the Chinese Navy ships will be launched D-type large-scale construction of the first batch of four, from the hull linear, 052 from 052 C or D is 170 ships, with a clear succession, belong to large ships, and there are better seakeeping performance for offshore operations, and the superstructure design fully absorb and learn from the 054 A, 052B and 051 C's successful experience, particularly in the concentrated expression of stealth design concept, compared 052 C 052 D concise a lot smoother.

The ship tall Jianqiao, Jianqiao dumping within the wall, the wall with the 01 deck and the main deck freeboard, the same ship similar to the B-arc transition plate stiffener, it is this type of ship designs on the most uncoordinated part, has seriously undermined the entire ship at the same time also affect the aesthetics of stealth performance. Baling was tapered Jianqiao overall appearance of similar rank and King Kong Burke-class destroyers, four Phased Array Radar front of the layout also the same? ? And the hull was in the middle of the four 45-degree slope, with the dumping of about 15 degrees.

Currently front location of the installation of a cylindrical steel cover plate cover can be sure that front is not yet installed. This is due to phased array antenna components weight of the `high value, lifting more difficult, but the process of launching berth hull structure deformation antenna components will probably bring adverse effects, therefore, the installation work should normally be in the water after the舾installed and will be conducted on the bulkhead on the superstructure of the large opening for the time being kept in enclosures board to ensure that the structural strength Zhefengdangyu also played the role of the United States and Japan also adopted a similar approach.

Radar reflectivity to reduce hull,舰身to use graphic design, and the surface is very smooth hull will be painted with 170 ships similar to the special materials to absorb radar wave, which showed China's large warship to build vessels technology.

052D advance speed of 32 biaxial

Range 14, 14,000 sea miles 20 when 10,000 sea miles

Standard displacement of 9,500 tons: load displacement of 12,000 tons;-180, width 20, a depth of 6.5 m

16 ships have bow cold VLS system will have six VLS modules; cold, a total of 96 units
Equipment:
Long-range ship-to-air missiles: the red -9 A 64 200 km
Anti-ship missile: Eagle hit -12: eight 550 km
Land attack missile: red birds -3:24-3000 km

Chimney rear of a six per VLS system with eight VLS modules; a total of 48 thermal units
Equipment:
Antisubmarine missiles: HY-5: 18 30 km
- And short-range ship-to-air missiles: the red flag -16: 30 30 km

150 MM Diancibao a range? (Personally think that 360 km)

ZM-1 strategic range of 13 kilometers laser weapons to achieve missile interception

One of 730 short-range missile defense artillery fire system 2

Torpedo even with two 3 anti-submarine torpedoes 324MM fish -7

Main radar;
Chinese Aegis system four S-band Active Active Phased Array Radar

A SIP-329 (V) and early-warning radar system on the 21st of deceptive drama

Helicopter two K-28B anti-submarine helicopters and several WZ-2000 UAV

Re: DDG 052C Thread

That sounds like a cruiser one would put out in 2020-2030.

And something with railguns and lasers should require a nuclear powerplant, no?

Re: DDG 052C Thread

Skywatcher said:

That sounds like a cruiser one would put out in 2020-2030.

And something with railguns and lasers should require a nuclear powerplant, no?

Click to expand...

The power requirements would be enormous, so a nuclear power plant would be appropriate. The only other feasible option would to go for Integrated Electric Propulsion with gas turbines powering electric generators, but then, fuel consumption would be enormous.

Re: DDG 052C Thread

If I refer to the statement made on the blog this ship (Fictitious for the moment) will have 144 VLS Units in total compared to the 128 VLS of the King Sejong the Great class destroyer KDX III. The standard displacement of the King Sejong the Great class is 7,650 tonnes, while its full load displacement is 10,290 tonnes compared to Standard displacement of the fictitious Type 052D 9,500 tonnes, and full load displacement of 12,000 tonnes. This ship if ever built will be a monster.

Re: DDG 052C Thread

according to USN and japanese magazine, the biggest short coming of 52C was the four phase array radar is located "near" the sea level,this affected the radar ability to detect sea skimming or ultra low level missiles.
this may reason why to date only 2 such ship were build.
on the other hand, I been quite suprise that PLAN do not come out small mini aegis E or X band PAR for 054.

Wrong Shipment

Friends,

It would be interesting to know how China would react to this.
And I believe that this will give an excuse for China to change its nuclear doctrine. If accident can happen, then China needs to update its nuclear doctrine: "China reserves the right to preemptively nuke the countries or NGO which has nuclear capability." The reason is simple: this thing happened in 2006, and it is just discovered recently. How many more cases like this can happen? Although it is a mistake or accident (unintentional), they do cost something, though. Changing your position to first strike is to limit the collateral damage that might be caused by this kind of "accident."

What do you guys think?

PS: To moderator, please help me to post a new thread, because I cannot find to link. I'm sorry for posting this under DDG 052 thread.



U.S. says missile parts mistakenly sent to Taiwan

* Story Highlights
* Ballistic missile components sent to Taiwan, Pentagon says
* Taiwan had requested radio batteries
* U.S. military has retrieved missile parts from Taiwan; probe is under way
* U.S. notifies China, which considers Taiwan to be a renegade province

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The U.S. Defense Department accidentally shipped ballistic missile components to Taiwan, the Pentagon said Tuesday.

Four nose-cone fuses for intercontinental ballistic missiles were shipped instead of the helicopter batteries that Taiwan had requested, Air Force Secretary Michael Wynne said.

The fuses were shipped to Taiwan in fall 2006 and kept in a warehouse there. The Taiwanese military informed the United States last week about their presence on the island.

"There are no nuclear or fissile materials associated with these items," Wynne said. "The United States is making all appropriate notifications in the spirit of candor and openness in an effort to avoid any misunderstanding."

An investigation is under way, he added. VideoWatch how missile parts ended up in Taiwan »

Ryan Henry, principal deputy undersecretary of defense for policy, said, "In an organization as large as DOD, the largest and most complex in the world, there will be mistakes. But they cannot be tolerated in the arena in strategic systems, whether they are nuclear or only associated equipment, as was in this case."

Henry said the parts were 1960s technology, designed for use with Minuteman ballistic missiles.

Officials said China, which considers Taiwan to be a renegade province, has been notified about the mistake.

The Chinese government did not immediately issue a response to the news.

Wynne said the missile components were first shipped from F.E. Warren Air Force Base in Wyoming to Hill Air Force Base in Utah in 2005.

On arrival at Hill, they should have been placed in the classified storage section, Wynne said, but instead were moved to a storage area for unclassified items.

He said stocks at the Utah base should be checked quarterly and a key part of the investigation will be determining how those checks did not turn up the missile parts before they were shipped to Taiwan.

It is the second nuclear-related mistake involving the Air Force in less than a year. In August, a B-52 bomber mistakenly carried six nuclear warheads from North Dakota to Louisiana. A six-week investigation uncovered a "lackadaisical" attention to detail in day-to-day operations at the air bases involved.

The Air Force said it relieved four officers, including three colonels, and other personnel lost their certification to handle sensitive weaponry.

Re: DDG 052C Thread

There's like 2 existing threads on the shipment already. >_> I started one of them myself in the member's club area.

Commenting on the 052D speculations, I find the specs very difficult to believe. HY-5 ASROC? ZM-1 laser cannon? um...
:nana:

Currently, energy weapons are very large and cumbersome. See here for example:


I suppose if you build a large destroyer and allocate most of the space in forward section to a laser weapon, it might work. But that wouldn't leave any space for the VLS cels in front.

-------

I like the fact that the newer generation of Chinese warships didn't follow the Russian model of packing as much explosives as you can on deck. The weapons load on the 052C (in quantity, not necessarily quality) is comparable to what you'd see on latest EU ships, like the FREMM, Type 45, and Horizon Class. More room for the crew, better protection and damage control. If you pack a whole lot of explosives like the Russians, you'd have a tinder box ship.

Re: DDG 052C Thread

challenge said:

according to USN and japanese magazine, the biggest short coming of 52C was the four phase array radar is located "near" the sea level,this affected the radar ability to detect sea skimming or ultra low level missiles.
this may reason why to date only 2 such ship were build.
on the other hand, I been quite suprise that PLAN do not come out small mini aegis E or X band PAR for 054.

Click to expand...

You can see from the pictures the arrays are far from sea level. That's just way too obvious to be debunked.

Re: DDG 052C Thread

Well thats not entirely true. I quess the article ment to say "too near" to the waterline.

If you look carefully, indeed the 052C has its plannar arrays far "nearer to the water" than in conterpory ships with similar type of arragements. I used the shipbucket images to illustrate this. (as its the only place where you can find ship linedrawings all in the same scale...not that I'm advertising or anything)



In the above picture you can see that the arrays on 052C are about 1.3 meters lower than in Alreigh Burke and over 4 meters lower than in Kongo. Also as you may have noticed, both the americans and japanese have since those classes raised half of the radars even higher reportetly from this very same reason. Also its interesting to note that many other vessels using plannar arrays, like the Spanish F-100 design and Norweigian Fithfjord Nansen class have the arrays mounted in large mastlike structures above the bridge and the center of the radars are also higher than in 052C.

Re: DDG 052C Thread

The 052C, Ticonderoga, Kongo, and F100 ships are all still using AN/SPY-XX style phased array radar panels. The sheer size of those panels, along with whatever equipment that's behind it, is probably a restrictive factor in where you could mount it. The Japanese solution is to simply build a taller superstructure.

The European solution uses different radar and they can mount it much higher, like the Thales APAR on top of the F124, Selex EMPAR on top of Horizon, or the SAMPSON AESA radar on top of Type 45 Destroyer.

It boils down to if you want continuous coverage with 4 x large phased array panels, mounted on the superstructure, or a smaller, lighter, rotating sensor mounted on top of a tower. I read that the SAMPSON radar on the type 45 is mounted at twice the hight of US radar on US ships?

It'd be interesting which approach the PLAN takes with its future ships.