052/052B Class Destroyers

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

^ I would argue the PLA is capable of the sort of regimental attacks you're talking about with their JH-7/A fleet. There's some ten regiments worth of JH-7/As currently in service and each plane can carry four YJ-83Ks with space to spare. Of course JH-7/As do not have range as great as backfires and there's the supersonic vs subsonic AShM debate (trading high speed for lower range and higher cruise altitude).

I'm not sure if they train for the wave tactics the soviets adopted but it's certainly something to keep in mind. I also wonder if 022s are operated by PLAN in a similar fashion. Although against a fully defended CVBG such a manoeuvre would be unwise.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Bltizo said:

^ I would argue the PLA is capable of the sort of regimental attacks you're talking about with their JH-7/A fleet. There's some ten regiments worth of JH-7/As currently in service and each plane can carry four YJ-83Ks with space to spare. Of course JH-7/As do not have range as great as backfires and there's the supersonic vs subsonic AShM debate (trading high speed for lower range and higher cruise altitude).

I'm not sure if they train for the wave tactics the soviets adopted but it's certainly something to keep in mind. I also wonder if 022s are operated by PLAN in a similar fashion. Although against a fully defended CVBG such a manoeuvre would be unwise.

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022 are for close quarter knife fight. they also present a low cost target for a missile... there is only limited number of weapon stations on a F/A-18 or F-16.

JH-7A is meant for JMSDF. and closed quarter fight near china's coast. not for anything beyond 1st island chain.

there is nothing in PLAAF/PLAN arsenal that resembles backfires and bears.

soviet union towards later part realized that the key to hunt down a carrier group is know where it is at all the time.
that's why they invested tremendous amount of resources into MPAs and Elint to track fleets.

US realized this also and the key to survival of the carrier group is not to be seen.

Tomcats/phoenix combo was meant for those Tu-142s and Tu-16 Recon/Jammer/Elint versions as much as for the missile carriers.

PLAN also realize this so given its limited resources, it is investing also in long range Elint/Recon capability first before the real long range shooting capability. which is wise.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

As much as I would like to comment, I think past experience has taught us that it is best to just leave this debate where it is before we end up with pages and pages of off topic A v B debates.

So here is a not so subtle attempt to get things back on track.

I recently asked in another thread whether anyone knew what the two devices installed on the 052 in place of the front twin AA guns after the recent refit was.



No_name suggested that it is some sort of active jammer, and there appears to be a pair of the same device installed on the 052Cs.

no_name said:

I think it is some sort of active jammer system.

You can see them on the type 052c:

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Does anyone have any more information on these jammers? Names perhaps? Specifications by any chance?

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

While we're on the subject of moving away from A vs B (which I sort of propagated heh), I'd like to raise my own question which hopefully won't detract from plawolf's own.

What's the full displacement of 052C? Wikipedia lists it as 7000 tons (we all know how reliable wiki is). I ask because the orbat list A man posted a few weeks back listed 052D as meant to displace 6800 tons, which would be barely an improvement, if any, over 052C. I think the consensus was that it's somewhere between 6k and 7k, but does anyone have a number from an authoritative source, like a (chinese) news report or one of the military/naval magazines they have over there? Or maybe the 6800 number was meant as standard displacement rather than full (which would then have repercussions for what the 5200 ton frigate and 9900 ton cruiser actually weigh).

Thanks. ^^

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Hi

I'am new on this site but have been reading the threads on the PLAN naval construction for sometime here.

Is there really a type 052D in the design stage, and if so, who has officially stated so?

Thanks

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Three 052C's Plus New New Sub's In Jiangnan Changxin Shipyard

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

steve_rolfe said:

Hi

I'am new on this site but have been reading the threads on the PLAN naval construction for sometime here.

Is there really a type 052D in the design stage, and if so, who has officially stated so?

Thanks

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All speculation. No official announcement to date as far as I know.

In the mean time, they are into serial production of the 052C and looks like they will end up with at least eight of them.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

steve_rolfe said:

Hi

I'am new on this site but have been reading the threads on the PLAN naval construction for sometime here.

Is there really a type 052D in the design stage, and if so, who has officially stated so?

Thanks

Click to expand...

Hi, welcome to the forum.

Well there is almost certainly a type 052D follow on to the 052C. The current "consensus" is that there will be six 052C+'s built in the second batch to make a total of eight, before switching to 052D production, and that we should see the first 052D hull take shape in the building hall in about a year after. There's also a smaller line of thought that one of the 052C's in the building hall is the first 052D and there will only be four 052C+'s built. We'll see in due time.

but yes there is an 052D (likely finished design and now waiting to be built), but as with all PLA developments, there is no "official" statements. All we have are opinions from various (garnered to be, after time) reliable sources.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Can a VLS cold launch system produce the same rapid fire rate as a VLS hot launch system ?

---------- Post added at 02:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:34 PM ----------

How big a difference do you think there is between the first two Type 052c's that where build earlier and the 6 that are being build now ? Don't forget there is a least a 7 year gap between the two batches and since then China's economy has nearly three folded and the budget for the military and science and technology research grew a long with it. Externally there isn't that much of a difference but what about the internal changes in the electronics and weapons systems. For instance are these ships equipped with the newer HHQ-9B or C variants. Out side looks could be deceptive and too bad China gives very little information about their weapon systems.

---------- Post added at 02:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:55 PM ----------

How big a difference do you think there is between the first two Type 052c's that where build earlier and the 6 that are being build now ? Don't forget there is a least a 7 year gap between the two batches and since then China's economy has nearly three folded and the budget for the military and science and technology research grew a long with it. Externally there isn't that much of a difference but what about the internal changes in the electronics and weapons systems. For instance are these ships equipped with the newer HHQ-9B or C variants. Out side looks could be deceptive and too bad China gives very little information about their weapon systems.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Franklin said:

Can a VLS cold launch system produce the same rapid fire rate as a VLS hot launch system ?

Click to expand...

I do not know the cold fire rates, but for hot launch, the MK 41 is right at one missile every second and the PAAMS system does one every 1.25 seconds.

I've looked for fire rates on the Cold launch...and it seems like its something on the order of one every two seconds or something like that...but that's just memory of what I think I read or heard and is not a reliable figure.