052/052B Class Destroyers

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

franco-russe said:

The 16 054A will probably be completed by 2014.

Then I expect a break while they prepare construction of 054B.

And 2016 is the first year of the 13th 5-year plan, where I suppose Type 054B is inscribed.

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I don't think they will be any 054B, PLAN shall go the USN mode. Build destroyer only(052D). Bigger destroyer to handle the rough sea since PLAN need to make so much long voyage. Plus big ship has more power and potential for future upgrade when your missiles gets bigger, system gets heavier and power hungry.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Lion said:

I don't think they will be any 054B, PLAN shall go the USN mode. Build destroyer only(052D). Bigger destroyer to handle the rough sea since PLAN need to make so much long voyage. Plus big ship has more power and potential for future upgrade when your missiles gets bigger, system gets heavier and power hungry.

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You do realize that just because the USN does it does not necessarily mean you have to as well right?

The USN also has an all nuclear sub fleet, and the PLAN is about as likely to adopt an all destroyer surface fleet as it is to scrap all it's SSKs.

For now and the foreseeable future, the PLAN's primary focus will still be the waters around China's coast.

They are building a blue water fleet and will be launching more and longer patrols once their carriers start coming online, but that will only be a secondary role next to safeguarding China's vital coastal regions. This means that frigates and SSKs will likely have a central place within the PLAN for decades to come at least.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

And frigates are perfectly good for blue water ops too, as 054 has shown over and over. 054b should only give us a more capable jiangkai which there is still a place for in the PLAN

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

plawolf said:

You do realize that just because the USN does it does not necessarily mean you have to as well right?

The USN also has an all nuclear sub fleet, and the PLAN is about as likely to adopt an all destroyer surface fleet as it is to scrap all it's SSKs.

For now and the foreseeable future, the PLAN's primary focus will still be the waters around China's coast.

They are building a blue water fleet and will be launching more and longer patrols once their carriers start coming online, but that will only be a secondary role next to safeguarding China's vital coastal regions. This means that frigates and SSKs will likely have a central place within the PLAN for decades to come at least.

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China and USA are 2 big powerful countries with many deep interest overseas.. Its is not difficult to link them both together for comparison since both of their navy will be the top 1 and 2 in the world.

USN going all destroyer is a sound bet as I say my points earlier. Say cost for future by building a bigger platform which has high upgrade value. Plus no doubt they will have a bigger endurance to reduce number of replenishment and providing more comfort with a stable platform in rough sea..

Did you see the recent 054A photo exercise in ESF?



You can imagine the sea in Indian Ocean and Pacific Ocean will be much rougher....

Rather than trying to save abit of money currently building cheaper, smaller platform. SInce China has the money now. Spend it now and you save the money in future for building new platform to support new system and mission which will be more costly.

This is what USN is currently doing it now.. You look at the small picture think Alreigh Burke DDG is expensive but in the big picture it is still cheaper than Aegis cruiser and more capable than Olive Perry class Frigate.

I can totally understand the purpose of 056, it act as a regional patrol ship. Able to handle Japan and South China sea well. It's purpose is never to go into big ocean.

But 054 is design trying to be a blue water vessel. Which is like stuck in between regional sea and ocean going. Not adequate enough.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

^ 054 is a perfectly good blue water vessel. China does not need, nor will it be logical to spend so much money, on an all DDG fleet.

PLAN are obviously happy with 054's sea keeping in blue water and long transits, otherwise they wouldn't keep sending them to aden nor would they keep ordering the hull. For the forseeable future, a blue water fleet of DDGs complemented by larger numbers of modern FFGs like 054/A/B will be enough for the PLAN's blue water and CVBG aims.

In future, I expect a new generation frigate to be around the 6000 ton range like european "frigates" (which are really destroyers) to be mass produced, and to complement smaller numbers of large destroyers like king sejong or even zumwalt sized ships (cruisers in their own right). But a new generation of ships beyond 052D and 054B will only emerge until we're well into the 2020s. For the moment, 052C/Ds and 054/A/Bs are, and will be enough for the PLAN's surface combatants.

There is literally no reason for the PLAN to splurge on massed DDGs. The PLAN is not the USN. 054/A has shown again and again that it is good enough for PLAN, and there is still some potential we can squeeze out from the hull.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Lion said:

I don't think they will be any 054B, PLAN shall go the USN mode. Build destroyer only(052D). Bigger destroyer to handle the rough sea since PLAN need to make so much long voyage. Plus big ship has more power and potential for future upgrade when your missiles gets bigger, system gets heavier and power hungry.

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PLAN and USN have different goals and objectives ... PLAN will always need Frigates, unlike USN

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Lion said:

....USN going all destroyer is a sound bet as I say my points earlier. Say cost for future by building a bigger platform which has high upgrade value. Plus no doubt they will have a bigger endurance to reduce number of replenishment and providing more comfort with a stable platform in rough sea..

Did you see the recent 054A photo exercise in ESF?....

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I think you are looking at the equation from a very narrow point of view. Did you forget the USN is also building a fleet of LCS?

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

USN has not have to defend the territory of the member states of the USA since, I think, the civil war. Two Alaskan islands were occupied by Japan during about a year during WWII, but Alaska became a state about fifteen years later. So all recent action by USN was in the middle of the oceans or on the other side. The LCSs Joshuatree rightly mentions are also intended for use on the other side and are not as robust as defensive ships would be. There is already mention of damage on that account. As PLAN is first of all intended to defend the mainland of China any direct comparison with USN is mistaken.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Alaska was purchased from Russia on March 30, 1867, for $7.2 million

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

antiterror13 said:

Alaska was purchased from Russia on March 30, 1867, for $7.2 million

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What he is saying, I think, is that although Alaska became American in 1867, it didn't become a -state-until much later. I guess it was counted as a "territory" before that....