052/052B Class Destroyers

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

timepass said:

Hi,

I have an inquiry here, we have seen HP/HD/JN shipyards with multiple slots/halls in their yards then why PLAN didnt use all at same & chrunk it out a lot of 054A/052C.

Like HD I belive they have 4 or 5 slots, HP have 2 halls & JN have I think 6 halls therefore, they can or could easly produce 12 054A or 12 052C in a year & half, RIGHT?

And definatly commercial orders can be move to other shipyards like Daliyan etc.

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Unless there is a war that I'm not aware of, what good will amping up production do in terms of ship building capacity and skilled workers? Are you going to be ordering another round of 12 054As or 12 052Cs after the first round? If not, what will you do with the excess workers? Slow but steady would be the better route, you keep your core group of skilled workers employed consistently.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

well at current production rates ( 1 destroyer per year and 2 frigates) the final 16th Type 054A will be ready in or around 2015, after that if and when China plans Type 054B will be produced, a 5 year run on Type 054B can see upto 10 produced by 2020, so by 2020

2 x Type 054
16 x Type 054A
10 Type 054B
8 x Type 052C
8 x Type 052D
24 x Type 056

thats 28 frigates, 16 destroyers and 24 corvettes, if that isnt enough i dont know what is, the rate of production has to be constant and sustained over a long period of time, in this case, more than a decade

that is enough surface force to provide escort for 3 carrier task forces and still have ships to spare

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Would someone please post the most recent pictures of the 052c hulls being constructed at this time? As I understand at the shipyard there are 3 in the water and 2 in the hanger. Is this accurate?

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

asif iqbal said:

well at current production rates ( 1 destroyer per year and 2 frigates) the final 16th Type 054A will be ready in or around 2015, after that if and when China plans Type 054B will be produced, a 5 year run on Type 054B can see upto 10 produced by 2020, so by 2020

2 x Type 054
16 x Type 054A
10 Type 054B
8 x Type 052C
8 x Type 052D
24 x Type 056

thats 28 frigates, 16 destroyers and 24 corvettes, if that isnt enough i dont know what is, the rate of production has to be constant and sustained over a long period of time, in this case, more than a decade

that is enough surface force to provide escort for 3 carrier task forces and still have ships to spare

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Dear Franco/Asif/Josh,

Here PLAN needs to discard their huge part of old & obsolete fleet comprising on LUDA/053/037, & with this rate they are moving very slow as Asif mentioned by 2020 they reach to 16DDG/28FFG/24OPV.

My question is when China have all the recourses ($$$/Manpower/Shipyards/Engines etc) then why wait for almost a decade to reach where they can be within a 2-3 years?

Thanks

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

You cross a river by stepping on one stone at the time...

I think they will build 8 054B after the 16 054A, say starting in 2016. Thus, each destroyer flotilla will have one 054A/B squadron of four frigates.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Also because PLAN has a finite amount of equipment procurement budget every year, so it can't afford to buy all those ships at once. Also it takes time to train sailors and officers to man the ships, change doctrine and procedures so the ships integrates into the service better. All those tasks take time and cannot be achieved overnight.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

timepass said:

Dear Franco/Asif/Josh,

Here PLAN needs to discard their huge part of old & obsolete fleet comprising on LUDA/053/037, & with this rate they are moving very slow as Asif mentioned by 2020 they reach to 16DDG/28FFG/24OPV.

My question is when China have all the recourses ($$$/Manpower/Shipyards/Engines etc) then why wait for almost a decade to reach where they can be within a 2-3 years?

Thanks

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Building a load of ships but not having crews ready to man them is worse than not building the ships at all.

With naval warship development, each new model or even block tend to be a big improvement over the previous one. So if you spam more warships than you can effectively integrate into your force structure or actually need, then that means you are wasting resources.

It's like suggesting that the PLAN should have build loads of 052Bs and 054s in 2-3 years. If the PLAN did that, then they could not be able to afford or effectively man as much 052Cs and 054As as they could today.

Then, there is also the political consideration. If China suddenly started spamming warships like there is no tomorrow, all it's rivals who could afford to will probably follow suit and also seek closer co-operation between each other and the US to form a block to counter the sudden massive increase of the PLAN. That could easily result in China facing a worse security situation despite having way more warships. Which is a really stupid position to put yourself in since you are actually spending far more money to make yourself less safe.

But spreading it's fleet modernization and expansion over the course of many years or even decades, the PLAN ensures that a significant part of it's fleet is always at the cutting edge of world naval developments without placing too big of a financial burden on China; the PLAN would be able to more easily and effectively integrate the new ships into it's order of battle; a slower pace of modernization would also not provoke as strong a reaction from rivals so there is less chance of getting into a pointless arms race.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

franco-russe said:

You cross a river by stepping on one stone at the time...

I think they will build 8 054B after the 16 054A, say starting in 2016. Thus, each destroyer flotilla will have one 054A/B squadron of four frigates.

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well Franco, they did cross the river by stepping one at a time from mid 90's to 2010, its 1 & half decade.

---------- Post added at 03:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:05 PM ----------

plawolf said:

Building a load of ships but not having crews ready to man them is worse than not building the ships at all.

With naval warship development, each new model or even block tend to be a big improvement over the previous one. So if you spam more warships than you can effectively integrate into your force structure or actually need, then that means you are wasting resources.

It's like suggesting that the PLAN should have build loads of 052Bs and 054s in 2-3 years. If the PLAN did that, then they could not be able to afford or effectively man as much 052Cs and 054As as they could today.

Then, there is also the political consideration. If China suddenly started spamming warships like there is no tomorrow, all it's rivals who could afford to will probably follow suit and also seek closer co-operation between each other and the US to form a block to counter the sudden massive increase of the PLAN. That could easily result in China facing a worse security situation despite having way more warships. Which is a really stupid position to put yourself in since you are actually spending far more money to make yourself less safe.

But spreading it's fleet modernization and expansion over the course of many years or even decades, the PLAN ensures that a significant part of it's fleet is always at the cutting edge of world naval developments without placing too big of a financial burden on China; the PLAN would be able to more easily and effectively integrate the new ships into it's order of battle; a slower pace of modernization would also not provoke as strong a reaction from rivals so there is less chance of getting into a pointless arms race.

Click to expand...

Dear Wolf,

I think your second point is valid about political scenario, or otherwise I don’t see any other reason to China to do so.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

franco-russe said:

You cross a river by stepping on one stone at the time...

I think they will build 8 054B after the 16 054A, say starting in 2016. Thus, each destroyer flotilla will have one 054A/B squadron of four frigates.

Click to expand...

What makes you think it will take until then?

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

The 16 054A will probably be completed by 2014.

Then I expect a break while they prepare construction of 054B.

And 2016 is the first year of the 13th 5-year plan, where I suppose Type 054B is inscribed.