052/052B Class Destroyers

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Bltizo said:

Extended range/guided munitions can give you more stand off range.

But you're hardly going to send in fire support ships close to coast if you know there are AShM batteries close by. You'll have aircraft, cruise/ballistic missiles or even SOF to neutralize the threat as much as possible before sending in the amphibious assault ships and fire support vessels to grind with what shore based resistance remains.

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With a lot less potential for the operation in mind. HE v.s HE comparison are rather useless in this scenario as again, you're not going to need 90 kg of HE to take out the targets in mind, the 11 kg of HE would do fine. And the targets probably wouldn't be clustered close together too, so the majority of the HE charges would go to waste and make a big boom along the way. For a ground support scenario, which is likely because coastal AShM launchers are assumed to have been neutralized beforehand, you'd want to hit multiple targets with the adequate amount of munitions. Lobbing 12 300 mm rockets would take care of 12 targets and of course send more frag off, but 300 155 mm shells would take care of 300 targets. You can argue that the 300 mm rockets could just dispense submunitions, but submunitions aren't going to do much damage against the hardened coastal bunkers that people are envisioning. If it were a bunch of infantry and ground vehicles in one place unprotected, sure, lob some submunition ladened rockets at it. But that's highly improbable because any nation that is facing the U.S. or China knows better not to leave their army out in the open like that.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

franco-russe said:

If you go back to A. Man’s post # 1032 (p. 69), you will see that he quoted rumours (which I believe to be exact) that PLAN is now building six Type 052C destroyers (150-153, 172-173), to be followed by eight Type 052D (117-118, 154-157, 174-175).

Also thanks to A. Man for the names of 150 and 151 (strange names for ESF destroyers, since Jinan is the capital of Shandong province and Changchun of Jilin province, both in the NSF AOR).

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just made my day franco-russe

that means 8 Type 052Cs + 8 Type 052Ds total 16 top of the line destroyers

am I right in saying that Pennant 150, 151 and 152 are in the water and 153 is waiting to be launched by midde of this year, then 172 and 173 in 2013

from 2013 they start on Type 052Ds, within 4 years can have all 8 launched, so by 2017 or 2018 have all 16 Type 052C/Ds ready

I think the Japanese navy will no longer hold its edge in surface combatants against China within the next 5 years, this whole thing is going to change and change very fast

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

You are right about a total of 052C and three now in the water.

I've posted it before, but here goes:

Hull 3 (150) was launched 28.11.10 (and should after protracted sea trials, including a trip to its future homeport Dinghai, be commissioning now),

Hull 4 (151) launched 20.07.11

Hull 5 (152) launched 16.10.11

These ought to commission in 2012, too, Hulls 6 and 7 in 2013 and Hull 8 in 2014.

After that, I would expect a break before deliverres of 052D in 2015 or 2016.

Quality-wise, it will take China decades to reach the level of professionalism of the Japanese Navy.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

@ ironsight, how is that reply relevant to my post? I was explaining how potential threats to ships would need to be neutralized before you can send in ship based fire support.

I didn't even mention MLRS

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

In the past few years the pace of construction of 052 destroyers have increased markedly. Assuming that there is no further speed-up, what is the general estimated max number of 052 type that China is capable to build in a year or so? I mean not the time required to build the empty hull, but the complete ship, comprehensive of electronics, weapons, etc. It is 3? 4? 2? More than 4 or less than 2? Thx.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Krabat1976 said:

In the past few years the pace of construction of 052 destroyers have increased markedly. Assuming that there is no further speed-up, what is the general estimated max number of 052 type that China is capable to build in a year or so? I mean not the time required to build the empty hull, but the complete ship, comprehensive of electronics, weapons, etc. It is 3? 4? 2? More than 4 or less than 2? Thx.

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It should one(and not in a year). isn't it franco-russe??

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Thank you very much!

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

It is not known when 052C's are laid down, but I guess Hull 3 (150) was begun a least 12 months before it was launched in November 2010 and it was completed a year later. Two years is not a lot, so it might well be some more, but probably not more than 30 months.

And they build two a year.

The hull sections for Hull 6, which will be completed early 2014, are seen in the latest GE update 27.07.11 (thanks, hmmwv!)

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

franco-russe said:

It is not known when 052C's are laid down, but I guess Hull 3 (150) was begun a least 12 months before it was launched in November 2010 and it was completed a year later. Two years is not a lot, so it might well be some more, but probably not more than 30 months.

And they build two a year.

The hull sections for Hull 6, which will be completed early 2014, are seen in the latest GE update 27.07.11 (thanks, hmmwv!)

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Hi,

I have an inquiry here, we have seen HP/HD/JN shipyards with multiple slots/halls in their yards then why PLAN didnt use all at same & chrunk it out a lot of 054A/052C.

Like HD I belive they have 4 or 5 slots, HP have 2 halls & JN have I think 6 halls therefore, they can or could easly produce 12 054A or 12 052C in a year & half, RIGHT?

And definatly commercial orders can be move to other shipyards like Daliyan etc.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Of course they could build a lot more frigates (and destroyers too, if they used Dalian again) - in case of general mobilisation. There is any number of civilian yards that could handle the orders for merchant ships that Huangpu and Hudong do.

As for destroyers, only Jiangnan's Building Hall 1 (western) can properly handle them on the two building ways there (both now occupied by destroyers). Building Hall 2 (eastern) is really too low, though 052C hulls have been put together there before moving to building way 2for superstructure etc.

We have never seen more than two 054A's under construction at Huangpu at the same time, I guess it is the maximum.

I have not studied Hudong, it seems too complicated. But they both can and do build frigates on the opposite shore, at Zhonghua (now 056, previously F22P for Pakistan).

It seems to me PLAN is spending a lot of money as it is! No reason to go on a war footing.