That is a WILD thing to say while simultaneously quoting Bulgarian Military and Army Recognition with a straight face.
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09III/09IV (093/094) Nuclear Submarine Thread
- Thread starter SinoSoldier
- Start date
Well, the other two sources have pictures !
What was the original claim anyway? Could you provide a link to the CMSI paper you are referring to?
New 09IIIB footage:
if you get a chance, the latest episode by Shilao is really good
Talked quite a bit about the entire Chinese submarine program.
Said that the original 093 looked like 091, because there was layoff in time between 405 and first 093. They had to rehire workers at Boahi shipyard, which really took a toll on the program. So, 093 was conservative I guess.
Talked about G-I-UK gap vs first island chain. Explained the big difference since once you get past first island chain, you have the entire Pacific Ocean in front of you (something I mentioned for a while) and when equipped with 093B with YJ-18B (ayi specially said 2000 km strike radius). So, it's actually very hard to hunt that down in the middle of Pacific Ocean.
Mentioned the importance of 093A in 094 getting out of first island chain. Said it is filled with sensors everywhere, so that once you get to the area with all the American sensors and possible submarine near bye. 093A with it's low towed array sonar and other sonar can cue up all the MPAs to hunt down USN submarines, which allow 094 to get out.
Then, they mentioned that 093B is built at same rate as 055 program. When it comes to VLS, they didn't directly say how many it has, but mentioned that adding extra length to accommodate more is no problem. So if PLAN decide on 12-cell VLS, it's more because they think that's all they need or can reasonably fire off before scooting away. Let's say they get to maybe 1500 km from Hawaii, fire all the missiles in a couple of minutes and they quickly scoot away before USN start chasing them down. Once you get to PD to fire the YJ-18Bs, it becomes pretty obvious where you are.
I think they also confirmed it uses pumpjet propulsion, although maybe I heard it wrong.
Talked quite a bit about the entire Chinese submarine program.
Said that the original 093 looked like 091, because there was layoff in time between 405 and first 093. They had to rehire workers at Boahi shipyard, which really took a toll on the program. So, 093 was conservative I guess.
Talked about G-I-UK gap vs first island chain. Explained the big difference since once you get past first island chain, you have the entire Pacific Ocean in front of you (something I mentioned for a while) and when equipped with 093B with YJ-18B (ayi specially said 2000 km strike radius). So, it's actually very hard to hunt that down in the middle of Pacific Ocean.
Mentioned the importance of 093A in 094 getting out of first island chain. Said it is filled with sensors everywhere, so that once you get to the area with all the American sensors and possible submarine near bye. 093A with it's low towed array sonar and other sonar can cue up all the MPAs to hunt down USN submarines, which allow 094 to get out.
Then, they mentioned that 093B is built at same rate as 055 program. When it comes to VLS, they didn't directly say how many it has, but mentioned that adding extra length to accommodate more is no problem. So if PLAN decide on 12-cell VLS, it's more because they think that's all they need or can reasonably fire off before scooting away. Let's say they get to maybe 1500 km from Hawaii, fire all the missiles in a couple of minutes and they quickly scoot away before USN start chasing them down. Once you get to PD to fire the YJ-18Bs, it becomes pretty obvious where you are.
I think they also confirmed it uses pumpjet propulsion, although maybe I heard it wrong.
093Bs with YJ-18B have 2000 kilometers of strike radius?
Are they referring to YJ-20/21 instead? Because the YJ-18 family are only known to have ~600 kilometers of strike radius (unless they know something we don't).
THERE. That's what I meant in the 095 SSN/096 SSBN thread previously.
The North Atlantic is not the same as the Western Pacific, where regions south of the GUIK gap are basically flanked by the UK + European mainland and CONUS on both sides, which necessitates having Russian/Soviet SSBNs hiding in the Arctic basin, with the surface components of the Russian/Soviet Navy forming a perimeter around that basin to serve as a naval bastion for their SSBNs.
Even so, the US and NATO navies have always been seeking to breach that bastion perimeter throughout the Cold War in order to hunt and kill Soviet SSBNs hiding there - The efforts of which would only become easier once UUVs, USVs and other associated technologies becomes more mature and widely adopted in the coming years and decades.
Back to China's case - Who says that the US&LC wouldn't attempt the same in the SCS basin? There're still plenty of islands and atolls in the SCS which are not under Chinese control - Let alone the fact where the SCS basin is also flanked by a hostile Philippines to the east, an unfriendly Vietnam to the west, and a complicit Singapore (potentially plus Malaysia and Indonesia, given that they aren't exactly chummy with China in the SCS disputes) to the south. Who can guarantee that the PLA is able to take over much of those required and form a secure, impenetratable naval bastion where PLAN SSBNs can hide in during wartime?
In contrast - Once past the 1IC, the Pacific is pretty much empty spaces everywhere.
The goal is to get those SSBNs into the "true blue" Pacific beyond the 1IC where sensor arrays are scant, and even with the number of warships, submarines and MPAs at the US&LC's disposal, trying to find one or more PLAN SSN/SSBNs in the vast Pacific is like trying to find a needle in a haystack.
Yes, ASW is hard - Otherwise, why bother with all those ASW stuffs?
Therefore, having those SSBNs maintain a permanent presence beyond the 1IC by conducting rotational deployment for sea-based deterrence patrol is vital. The key here is to make sure that at least one or few (once the SSBN fleet is expanded, for the latter) is always present and available in the vast expanse of the Pacific, where sea-based 1st/2nd strike capabilities are guaranteed even if the rest of the PLAN SSBN fleet is destroyed at home bases in pre-emptive strikes by the enemy.
That's why I advocated in the PLA Taiwan Strategy and PLA HIC Strategy threads that the PLA must punch holes that are as wide as possible in the 1IC (namely, that the PLA would be better off "liberating" the Ryukyus rather than focusing on Taiwan alone during war) - In order to secure a gap where PLAN SSNs and SSBNs can safely transit into and out of the "true bule" Pacific and free of the passive (underwater) and active (surface and aerial) detections by the enemy.
TL; DR - China needs her own Kuril Islands.
LACMs generally have far longer range going at subsonic speed than Anti-ship missiles of the same class. Just check Klub.
This part is off topic, but just to answer. China has sensors and ships all over SCS. This is not a great comparison from you
The point they were making is that due to 1IC been close enough to mainland that there are regular MPAs in the area that can chase away submarines and ASW assets from other side, 094s can get beyond 1IC without being tracked. Now, I don't know how often this happens in real life. This is entirely classified.
I'll just respond in the PLA HIC Strike Strategies thread to avoid derailing this thread.
the real answer to this problem is to have so many nuke subs that you always have a couple of boats beyond the 1st IC, and you are just rotating amongst them. probably will need double digits. so if a war breaks out, you already have some subs in the pacific even if the USN deploys sufficient ASW asset in the IC. same goes with carriers.
I mean clearly they will have enough to achieve that. I think 30% of USN subs are out of action for repairs. Now you are down to 35. You might have 5 SSNs in the close proximity of China at any given time and they can’t be all deployed. Most of those subs are LA class.
so yeah, PLAN adding 8 093B in a short time is a big deal. They might already have an advantage around first island chain actually.