Z-20 (all variants) thread

[superdog]

closest American equivalent to the Hip is probably the CH46 Seaknight, the European Merlin or Puma. The Blackhawk is more of a intermediate bird sitting between a lightweight like the H-6 little bird and the medium S92. Z20 would likely similarly sit between Z9 and Z8. Max troop load is maybe a dozen not counting crew that would of they follow the Blackhawk standard pilot and copilot plus one or two gunners. If Z20 is as capable as Blackhawk then the question is just how closely they will use the Blackhawk as the roadmap. Meaning roles to include, ASW, CSAR, medevac, and battle hawk a special operations version packing a turreted chain gun and external arms. If they do follow close perhaps even a stealth version. But that's down the road some distance.
now this still leaves a capacity gap in heavy lift chopper class. Option one would be to procure a a true heavyweight like Mi38 option two procure a heavier medium lift and make due. Given the tilt rotor program the PLA has admitted to I suspect they may be looking to that to operate as there future heavyweight. The quad configuration seems to me suited to a platform roughly equivalent to the current American Chinook or maybe CH53E super stallion. I am not sure it could as we have seen though go near Mi38 class.

I agree with what you said about the Z-20. But for heavy weight choppers I think they need one 13-15 ton class and one 20+ ton class, I'm not sure if they need a 30+ ton class like the CH53E. Z-8/Z-18/Mi-38 all falls into the 13-15 ton category, so they shouldn't have too much problem filling this position, at worst they can just build more Z-8F. It may take longer to work out a 20+ ton class, and given their "small step fast pace" tradition, I suspect they will build a traditional layout helicopter first before trying a tilt rotor or quad rotor.

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

I agree with what you said about the Z-20. But for heavy weight choppers I think they need one 13-15 ton class and one 20+ ton class, I'm not sure if they need a 30+ ton class like the CH53E. Z-8/Z-18/Mi-38 all falls into the 13-15 ton category, so they shouldn't have too much problem filling this position, at worst they can just build more Z-8F. It may take longer to work out a 20+ ton class, and given their "small step fast pace" tradition, I suspect they will build a traditional layout helicopter first before trying a tilt rotor or quad rotor.

probably would have been more more clear had I not confused MI38 for Mi 26... Sorry blame it on insomnia.

 

[i.e.]

Another thing is that the Mi-17 is not exactly in the same class as Z-20 or blackhawk, it is bigger, less maneuverable, and requires larger landing surfaces. Mi-17 is a more cost-effective solution to transport lots of stuff under more tolerable conditions (good landing area, normal altitude, not in extreme weather, etc.), but it may not fit the tactical needs in harsher environments. I think the PLA will continue to need both an economical workhorse like the Mi-17 and a high performance "front-line" medium lifter like the Z-20. In the long run they may use Z-18 to replace Mi-17 if they manage to lower its cost, or they may develop a twin engine 13-ton chopper, or they may even buy the Mi-38. The Z-20 fills a role that the PLA didn't have a perfect fit before, but I don't think it will work as a complete replacement for the Mi-17.

S-70 handles better than Mi-17 family. from what I have gathered here and there.
S-70 scales up is the S-92. Presumably china can do that also. if they can manage to ditch the convoluted 3 engine config for the gearbox for AC313 and use a proper twin engine solution.

the issue is really the turbo-machinery, gear-box-engine-rotor complex, this is the main driver of product cycle.

 

[i.e.]

We all know that but my point is that modifications can be made afterwards and they always start from somewhere

I would be very surprised if Harbin only thought about a navalized version with the folded tail and tail boom as an after thought.

What I meant is they prob has two versions ready to go on the drawing board.

AVIC wasn't entirely into a Kamov production line for a reason.

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

S-70 handles better than Mi-17 family. from what I have gathered here and there.
S-70 scales up is the S-92. Presumably china can do that also. if they can manage to ditch the convoluted 3 engine config for the gearbox for AC313 and use a proper twin engine solution.

the issue is really the turbo-machinery, gear-box-engine-rotor complex, this is the main driver of product cycle.

well kinda sorta. the SuperHawk uses the same engines, avionics, main rotors but there are major structural differences. its like the Hip and the Hind or Cobra and Huey.

 

[Equation]

Mi-17 is good, but soldiers can't enjoy dangling their legs over while in flight like the Blackhawk. I figure once the Z-20 gets more into productions than we start seeing more exercises like air assault rope repelling and such by PLA troops.

 

[Blitzo]

Pretty sure they can do roping from mi-17s too...

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

Pretty sure they can do roping from mi-17s too...

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You can fast rope from just about any chopper save attack choppers except Hind which it duel role.

 

[Equation]

You're right they can, but can they still dangle their legs over the side doors though?

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

True, from the rear door of the Mi-17 but not the side doors.

look at my photo equation. they are using the side door.
V22 can't use it's side door to fast rope because of the proximity to the rotors. all fast roping form them is from the back door.
can still hang your feet out with Z9 though.