Z-20 (all variants) thread

[MwRYum]

That's to be expected, this is just a medium lift helicopter that doesn't appear to have anything cutting edge. To the media there's little news value except maybe this is a "clone", but even then its not a surprise, just a platitude.

In comparison, the J-20 was a huge surprise to many people.

That's true, but at least you'd expect them to laugh their ears off at China's "finally" cough out a duplicate that has been around for 30+ years...

That said, it reminds me that China's effort to duplicate the Blackhawk is also that long, and has been in the limbo for 20+ years with next to making no headway, so what breakthrough they achieved to get one finally took flight? That'd be the million-dollar riddle of the the day, I say.

 

[chuck731]

It is unlikely a Blackhawks copy. I think z-20 is as much a copy of the Blackhawk as airbus a-320 is a copy of the B-737, or Airbus A-350 a copy of the b-787.

The most challenging parts of a helicopter are its rotor, drive line, turbine and flight software. It seem certain z-20 is very different from the Blackhawk in first three and quite probably the forth. In that case no amount of mere external resemblance would make it anything less than essentially a totally different design.

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

I have been fooling around with my Photoship comparing this baby to EC175 and Z10. no matches on EC175 but the exhaust on Z10 and Z20 is like a hybrid of blackhawk and Z10, Also the shaft of the Tail has fins on it form above and below in a identical location on both Z10 and Z20. and the tail wheel shares some architecture. As i said before if the chinese were to try and build a blackhawk they would go there own way. looks like the design team reused some of Z10.
The resemblance to blackhawk should have Sikorsky turning bight redthe PLA likely laid the specs based on Blackhawk But like the Z19 vs Japanese OH1 Ninja the Chinese went there own way to get there. Form Fallows function and if they wrote the script based on S70...

 

[i.e.]

It is unlikely a Blackhawks copy. I think z-20 is as much a copy of the Blackhawk as airbus a-320 is a copy of the B-737, or Airbus A-350 a copy b-787.
.

More appropriate analogy would be the " as airbus C919 is a copy of the A-320"

lol

 

[pendragon]

Quite a bit of consternation and speculation over a single set of photographs!
Could very wel be PS'ed or simply locally refurbished and upgraded original blackhawks from the original delivered batch.

I must agree however that if this were actually a new Chinese helicopter, both the PLA and the China government would have used it's apearance for propaganda together wit statements/proof of indigineous production.

So I'll just lie back and await further detailled info instead of making a fool of myself with wild guess-work.


I's like old British TV-Series .. come and see next week ...

 

[asif iqbal]

I really like to the look of the variant of the Z8 it's a very modern platform and would be beneficial to many branches of the Chinese military's

These pics surfaced a while ago but little is known about its current status

 

[asif iqbal]

I wouldn't say it look "exactly" like a blackhawk, based on the rough shape in the photo I think this is clearly not a direct copy (1:1 reverse engineering) of the blackhawk, but it heavily borrowed the basic structure and design philosophy of the blackhawk.

I know many military enthusiasts may feel disappointed, personally I wish to see something more refreshing as well. But the designers are not building this for a creative or PR contest, their priority is how to make something that best meets or exceeds the PLA's requirement given the capability and time constrain they have. If it means borrowing heavily from a proven foreign design, they'd have no reason not to do it. Don't forget that even the modern-looking AC313 was the result of a long-term evolution from the Super Frelon.

I think what could be asked from this exposure is that, if they did have the option to go on different design routes for a 10-ton chopper, why did they end-up choosing the blackhawk's overall structure? Why not a shrinked Mi-17 or an enlarged Z-15? Are the other options simply too risky to develop (e.g. may take longer, less battle-tested, etc.), or does the blackhawk's design uniquely provides something the PLA craved for? Are they looking to shove this thing into a Y-8/9 without taking it apart? I'm quite curious about this.

Well I think you know what I mean by "exactly"

The differences are there, 5 blades as opposed to 4, the nose section looks at bit more slopled and even possibly stealthy or it looks that way from some kind of sensor at the front, the body of a standard Blackhawk is flat and streamlined but the Z20 looks like the fuselage has a bump in it and the cockpit looks different

So there is clear difference but at the same time it's also clear that the basic frame design is dependent heavily on Blackhawk

 

[MwRYum]

Quite a bit of consternation and speculation over a single set of photographs!
Could very wel be PS'ed or simply locally refurbished and upgraded original blackhawks from the original delivered batch.

I must agree however that if this were actually a new Chinese helicopter, both the PLA and the China government would have used it's apearance for propaganda together wit statements/proof of indigineous production.

So I'll just lie back and await further detailled info instead of making a fool of myself with wild guess-work.


I's like old British TV-Series .. come and see next week ...

Unlike the J-20 saga same time 2 years ago, the Z-20 was only known to have first flown at an airfield at north eastern China, without knowing exactly where it's impossible to have other party to travel there and provide eye-witness account; and as you'd know, the only source is from the Chinese BBS sites and those few weibo sites, and if you try to ask around, it's only a waste of time because they're totally buying into the hype and stuff.

And certainly, nobody can tell you what powerplant this thing flew with, and there has been nothing when concerning the status of WZ-16 turboshaft engines, because that's the only domestic engine that potentially provides the needed weight-power ratio to make the Z-20 practical, yet nothing about its design certification is available.

Like I've said before, we've all heard about the Z-20 for a long time, in fact the project went about as far back as when they first imported those S-70, but the technology required was way out of China's league back then; and the project has been in the limbo for the past 20+ years with almost nothing solid about it, and now it flew?

However, I don't think it's an overhauled airframe because those surviving S-70 airframes, the PLA put them though very heavy use over the last 30 years, mostly in the highlands region where they shines. As close as 2008, we see them using the S-70 in the disaster relief effort, that means the PLA are operating those airframes almost - if not exceeds - their structural lifespan limits, and you can't roll back stuff like that, even if that's doable it'd be uneconomical.

 

[i.e.]

However, I don't think it's an overhauled airframe because those surviving S-70 airframes, the PLA put them though very heavy use over the last 30 years, mostly in the highlands region where they shines. As close as 2008, we see them using the S-70 in the disaster relief effort, that means the PLA are operating those airframes almost - if not exceeds - their structural lifespan limits, and you can't roll back stuff like that, even if that's doable it'd be uneconomical.

Sikorsky helps them maintain and overhaul those airframes.

actually there is nothing you could not buy on the completely legal commercial market for the spare parts.

AFAIK they are not heavily used as the US Military helicopters and they should still have some substantially hours left on the airframes.

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

There are also key structural difference between the two, the lower cabin hull on the Z20 has a deeper bulge where the cabin and the tail meet the upper structure has a fairing around the rotor not found on the hawk. Windows and doors are close but they differ in location.