Z-10 thread

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tphuang

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Put aside what chief designer says. The performance of WZ-10 in Airshow means nothing to you? I can reassure you, not all and even many attack helo is able to execute those loops and moves done by WZ-10. As least, I have performance for others to prove my point. Euro Tiger and WZ-10 both share very similar spec, yet the earlier was not deemed underpowered while the latter was condemmed as sub par powered. And the very fact, PLA is inducting WZ-10 in large number with almost 70-80 in service in current configuration and still continue with no new version coming in near future. All these imply WZ-10 are very unlikely to have the problem you mention as underpowered. What concrete things you can say for yours underpowered nonsense?

None.

When did I say it's underpowered? Show where I did this. I've stated earlier that I'm not taking side on this debate.

But I am trying to help members work with sources they use to make their point. And saying a weapon system is great because the chief designer said so is very ineffective point to make. For the future of this forum, I hope that does not get repeated too often.

The maximum take off weight of the Z-10 is 7000kg not 8000kg. So the shp/kg is little over 0,38 the same as the Apache and the Havoc.
I think 7000 kg is over stating it. Huitong's page uses 5500 kg. I think that's closer to where it truly is.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Never read so much nonsense before, Helicopter was not born in the Vietnam War who told you that, it was born in the Korean War

The use of an attack helicopter used for close air support was demonstrated and proven more than 20 years ago if you did not know during Gulf War in 1991 when a AH-64 squadron attacked a Iraqi Republican Guard Division, the Madinah Division, this was solely an attack helicopter vs armour division battle, since then attack helicopters have been used many times for close air support, no modern army will advance an armoured division consisting of tanks without close air support, as a matter of fact even infantry these days have close air support from attack helicopters

And anyone who comparing Z-10 with Euro copter first needs to establish who are Euro copter operators?? In comparison PLA is huge and have massive land force an attack helo with 8 ATGM is hardly sufficient

And lastly why do you think Z-10 does not have any suppression of heat exhaust or any IR suppression equipment installed over those two turbo shaft exits, not because PLA hasn’t thought of it but because it’s a trade-off between weight and engine power
Why is my post get deleted ?
Before you open your mouth and start screaming you should check your fact first. Though Helicopter was introduced in Korea war their role is limited to SAR, Medivac and Transport of medical and food to isolated troop. It never entered into combat and
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At that time the helicopter is too flimsy and under power anyway to do anything else. Only during the Vietnam war were helicopter function as tactical weapon to give the army mobility and carry the fight to the enemy and take the initiative.

Fighting a third rate power that is too weak to defend itself doesn't prove helicopter as front line CAS
The few crotale and outdated SA2 doesn't qualify as robust and layered air defense that country like China or Russia can provide. without ensuring air superiority first helicopter is sitting duck.

China doesn't need helicopter to perform CAS she has JH7A and hundred of J7 that can act as bomb truck

The metric is not that bigger is always better. People should look back in history and not fell for the fallacy of bigger is better. Tiger tank can shoot further and has thicker protective steel but it loose to T34 tank because the latter has better mobility and can be produced in large number and reliable too.

Because of added weight the Tiger was crushed by its own weight literally and encountered mechanical problem
So the metric should be whether WZ10 meet the PLA requirement .And judging by publicity and large number of WZ10 produced I am certain that they are satisfied with the performance of WZ10
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Don't take it personally. All our posts from basically yesterday were deleted. It probably has to with fixing the hack that happened on SDF.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Hendrick all our posts bit the big one including me correcting you both that the first use of armed combat choppers were the French in the Angola war. Where in early h21 and Sikorsky choppers were fitted with guns and used to supply CAS and COIN assets. Now in conflict not just Iraq and the current afghan but previously including the soviet Afghanistan conflict attack helicopters were proven effective weapons and very very good at close air support. Where the suffer is urban and extended range operations. Where they shine is they can stay and maneuver with the troops. To rearm a fixed wing asset demands a whole air base or carrier. To rearm a chopper a few heavy lifter choppers a good armaments crew and a fair sized clearing. As for denied territory ops in the opening of the firs Iraq war it was.apaches that destroyed Sam sites opening the door of the conflict. With good tactics and good equipment Denise is not quite.denied.
 

kwaigonegin

Colonel
Hendrick all our posts bit the big one including me correcting you both that the first use of armed combat choppers were the French in the Angola war. Where in early h21 and Sikorsky choppers were fitted with guns and used to supply CAS and COIN assets. Now in conflict not just Iraq and the current afghan but previously including the soviet Afghanistan conflict attack helicopters were proven effective weapons and very very good at close air support. Where the suffer is urban and extended range operations. Where they shine is they can stay and maneuver with the troops. To rearm a fixed wing asset demands a whole air base or carrier. To rearm a chopper a few heavy lifter choppers a good armaments crew and a fair sized clearing. As for denied territory ops in the opening of the firs Iraq war it was.apaches that destroyed Sam sites opening the door of the conflict. With good tactics and good equipment Denise is not quite.denied.

Well to be fair they were only effective until our very own CIA started arming the Mujaheedeens with Stingers. Once they were adapted to using the new weapon, Russians Hinds suffered significant losses.
There is no doubt that the Stingers played a significant even crucial role in the eventual Soviet retreat in Afghanistan.
 

Lion

Senior Member
When did I say it's underpowered? Show where I did this. I've stated earlier that I'm not taking side on this debate.

But I am trying to help members work with sources they use to make their point. And saying a weapon system is great because the chief designer said so is very ineffective point to make. For the future of this forum, I hope that does not get repeated too often.
At least we can agree in the performance of WZ-10 is not underpowered. That left HKSDU and Asif as the only members who until now still stubbornly insist WZ-10 is underpowered without subtantial backing. One even need to alter with false data to prove his point.
 
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hardware

Banned Idiot
16922076.jpg
old photo around early 90's showing Chinese military officer inspecting MI-24 attack helos. according to blogger the helos obtain thru third country.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
View attachment 8301
old photo around early 90's showing Chinese military officer inspecting MI-24 attack helos. according to blogger the helos obtain thru third country.

not that surprising. The US and NATO used techniques like that to secure a large amount of Russian technology around the same time period. I would not be surprised if both were still doing the same for more modern types.
also the PRC is surrounded by hind users. A back room deal with one of the Kims in the NK or a few well placed bribes to the right Russian general when the red army was not being paid
heck when the USAF ran its mig program once upon a time a good number of the Mig21s were in fact Chinese F7bs bought from the PRC directly. So it makes all the sense in the world for the PLA to have done the same.
 

rhino123

Pencil Pusher
VIP Professional
View attachment 8301
old photo around early 90's showing Chinese military officer inspecting MI-24 attack helos. according to blogger the helos obtain thru third country.

And what does that got to do with WZ-10? or did the the claimed "blogger" suggested that WZ-10 is actually an upgrade of the Hind?
 
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