Yuan Class AIP & Kilo Submarine Thread

[tphuang]

Let’s keep this discussion here. If it turns out to be mini nuke, we can move to that thread.

exciting development!

 

[Andy1974]

SSK in service with the PLAN at the end of 2023

• 1 Type 032 (test ship)
• 4 Type 035B
• 10 Improved Kilo
• 12 Type 039G
• 4 Type 039A
• 14 Type 039B
• 2 Type 039B mod

That's according to Military Balance 2024, published by a British think-tank. I'm not sure why they don't have the Type 039C listed. Maybe they don't think it has entered service yet. Or maybe they're calling it the "Type 039B mod".

Wow, that is basically 50 with these new 4, matches nicely with the 50 odd frigates and destroyers.

Edit: And light frigates too, I.e Type 056As. I this is a magic number.

 

[ACuriousPLAFan]

A rough infographic on said new type SSK by Sutton.

View attachment 133190

If his guessing is accurate, the addition of VLS cells onto an SSK would be a first for China (though the same goes for SSNs as well, i.e. the 093Bs).

Otherwise, could this (also/instead) be the first ever spotted unit of the long-rumored SSK-N?

More on the new type SSK, by @tshugart3 on Twitter.

Length comparsion of the new type SSK with the 039A and Hangor SSKs:



More of a definitive confirmation that the new type SSK has an X-tail instead of some temporary fixtures on the submarine's tail section:



Now with the information available, possibilities are that this boat is:
1. New class of SSK/New 039C-variant with VLS cells; or
2. A one-off test platform for (among some other things) an X-tail design; or
3. The first ever spotted SSK-N.

 

[Kich]

SSK in service with the PLAN at the end of 2023

• 1 Type 032 (test ship)
• 4 Type 035B
• 10 Improved Kilo
• 12 Type 039G
• 4 Type 039A
• 14 Type 039B
• 2 Type 039B mod

That's according to Military Balance 2024, published by a British think-tank. I'm not sure why they don't have the Type 039C listed. Maybe they don't think it has entered service yet. Or maybe they're calling it the "Type 039B mod".

I looked up Chinese wiki cause I don't really trust Western source when it comes to PLA numbers. Here's what I got.

• Kilo (10)
• Type 032 (1)
• Type 035B (5)
• Type 039 (13)
• Type 039A (4)
• Type 039B (14)
• Type 039C (2)

The Wiki is saying 6 more 039C are either being built or will be built.

 

[para80]

Wiki remains highly speculative. That said I also suspect everyone is mostly just carrying over each others numbers when it comes to the IMO highly speculative issue of of many 039A/B/C are in service. For 039 there is one original hull and 12 039G, explaining that particular discrepancy. There are five 035B which presumably remain in service. The biggest question mark for me is the remaining 035G.

 

[bebops]

2 new variant submarine in these 1 or 2 years-- one features a distinctive angled sail (probably the 039c submarine) and this recent unidentified one with a X rudder tail.

I looked up. There's no U.S submarine with X rudder tail except for the Columbia class, which is still under construction.

So China is ahead of the game with these two new features. I think China has caught on to the world leading submarine tech pretty quick.

 

[gelgoog]

The Type 212 submarine has an X-tail. As does the Gotland. A lot of European submarines use X-tails.
It is considered better for operating in shallow seas but not necessarily elsewhere.

 

[tphuang]

The Type 212 submarine has an X-tail. As does the Gotland. A lot of European submarines use X-tails.
It is considered better for operating in shallow seas but not necessarily elsewhere.

Exactly, countries design submarines based on their requirements. There are pros and cons to every feature rather than just say a feature is better than other features.

I think there is a good chance this is the mini nuke. Will be quite a development.

 

[pkj]

Exactly, countries design submarines based on their requirements. There are pros and cons to every feature rather than just say a feature is better than other features.

I think there is a good chance this is the mini nuke. Will be quite a development.

The new sub looks like it is still being fitted out?

For a nuclear sub, especially a new type with a pretty innovative mini-nuke reactor, I would presume all that would be done under roof, away from radiation sniffers, satellites, prying eyes, etc., until it's ready for trial.

Not saying that it's not mini-nuke, just that its launching would seem pretty "lackadaisical or casual", if it is indeed a new nuke type.

 

[ACuriousPLAFan]

Apart from German and Swedish submarines, Japan too have X-rudder tail SSKs in active service for many years, namely the Soryu and Taigei SSKs.

This can be seen as an emphasis of operational requirement in the East China Sea, especially around the Ryukyu Islands and Taiwan where the seas are typically shallow. The seabed around the Ryukyus can be quite mountainous as well, which are conductive for SSKs' role as silent ambushers.

Though, I'm more inclined to believe that the SSK-N could be filling a brand-new niche of operational demands and roles of subsurface warfare, with no previous examples for reference.