World News Thread & Breaking News!!

[jackliu]

Seriously what's with you guys and taking my words out of context. It's getting very frustrating. Maybe next time you say something and I accuse you of something else I fabricate completely, then let's see how you feel.

All I'm saying all along is that in any given conflict, any opposing parties with more common cultural background and similarities are quicker to find consensus and agreements, and one of the ways to start bridging caps and reduce conflicts is by observing what they have and look for in common, before contending the differences. That is ALL I have been saying along; just stating one of a reasons from social psychological and OB perspectives and using comparison methods to relate to how and why the Chinese and the Koreans might have seen more successes than the Israeli-Palestinians.There's numerous social psychological, sociological factors at play that influences everything, including collectivist cultures' ways of conflict resolution. All these are just humble humanity scientific analysis. That's all I'm saying; I NEVER even once stated or justified that they are correct. When the hell did I even say anything about what they are doing is correct? I'm just taking the situation apart and examining possible factors, and it's called case study. I had a condemning attitude towards the Israelis for violating war conventions and ethnically cleansing the Palestinians all along, so get off your computer and go for a walk if you're still gonna accuse me of all these stuffs.

I'm not very interested in arguing with you, especially when it's not even a stance I represent myself in the first place.

If you still have trouble comprehending, I seriously urge you to get a grip and keep your comments to yourself because the next time you start accusing me of something I wasn't even stating, I'd just simply ignore you.

Wow... did I hit a nerve? So if all you trying to say there is more barrier between Israel and Palestinians than Chinese and Taiwanese. Than yeah that's pretty obvious. But what I'm trying to say is that barrier along does NOT account for their failure to communicate and come up with a resolution, just as the cultural connection between China and Taiwan does NOT guarantee success.

Just because China is successful outreach with Taiwan does not mean it is a result of culture similarity, China made a decision on how do they want to proceed. Just like Israel have made a decision to further antagonize the Palestinians which seal their doom.

But of course your very first response to my post is bring up the similarity of Chinese and Taiwan and contrasting the difference between Israel and Palestinians, and went on defending it for 3 more posts... so how else should I take it?

 

[jackliu]

You guys are arguing but missing the MOST important element of all. The 500 ibs gorilla in the background called RELIGION!
As to the Palestinian cause what is more depressing is the Arabs absolutely do not care about them. They are merely using the Palestinian plight as a crutch and pawn in supressing Israel.

Also you absolutely cannot compare the dynamics and relationship between Jews/Palestinians with China/Taiwan or SK/SK. Their respective situation is not even close in any way shape or form to even form any type of hypothesis.

Well yeah, religion was is so obvious it is not worth to bring it up. But what I am saying, is that this is not the absolute barrier that prevent long lasting peace.

Jews and Muslim have been living relatively peacefully with each other for over 1500 years in Middle East, in fact, Jews generally was more accepted in Middle East than in Europe. It is only after WW2 when Israel took of their land the situation got bad.

But again... it is really in Israel's best interest to come up with a successful resolution with the Palestinians long time ago for their own interest, for example make deals with all other Arabs nations to take in some refugee, and at same time, helping the Palestinians to settle in their new homes with economic aids, and further culture cooperation to defuse long term tension.

But what happen is the Palestinians are stuck in refugee camp and their numbers are growing, each new generation are born and taught to hate. And Israel cannot just wipe them out like nations do in the past, so eventually they are doomed to be take over by Palestinians population.

I would NEVER directly compare China with Taiwan, there is absolutely no similarity between the two, however I still think the relationship between China and Taiwan was no less seriously to resolve. And they fact the China and Taiwan both agreed to turn towards a new level of interaction speaks a lot of wisdom from both side.

While Israel further humiliation of Palestinians was an conscious decision which speaks of their failure.

 

[airsuperiority]

Wow... did I hit a nerve? So if all you trying to say there is more barrier between Israel and Palestinians than Chinese and Taiwanese. Than yeah that's pretty obvious. But what I'm trying to say is that barrier along does NOT account for their failure to communicate and come up with a resolution, just as the cultural connection between China and Taiwan does NOT guarantee success.

Just because China is successful outreach with Taiwan does not mean it is a result of culture similarity, China made a decision on how do they want to proceed. Just like Israel have made a decision to further antagonize the Palestinians which seal their doom.

But of course your very first response to my post is bring up the similarity of Chinese and Taiwan and contrasting the difference between Israel and Palestinians, and went on defending it for 3 more posts... so how else should I take it?

Yea let's switch shoes and let's see how happy you would feel if the others are accusing you of things you don't even mean, shall we?

And no, barriers doesn't mean it's right to not work things out; the symbolic presence of barriers simply mean there's much more complications than necessary. I seriously don't get why you guys think when I say one factor, you think I mean it's the only decisive reason to it. I'm a constructivist and I like to explore almost all angle to see how everything paints into place, so I'm not that shallow to think "one reason and that's it" type. I find fundamental attribution tasteless and I'd slap myself for doing it.
Back to this, I still recognize culture is one of the many components which makes things work, but not the only(culture alone won't have suffice)

And why I keep stressing it is cause you're mistaking my words and I was trying to define my stances, but anyways at least we've got this cleared out, which is good.

 

[jackliu]

Yea let's switch shoes and let's see how happy you would feel if the others are accusing you of things you don't even mean, shall we?

And no, barriers doesn't mean it's right to not work things out; the symbolic presence of barriers simply mean there's much more complications than necessary. I seriously don't get why you guys think when I say one factor, you think I mean it's the only decisive reason to it. I'm a constructivist and I like to explore almost all angle to see how everything paints into place, so I'm not that shallow to think "one reason and that's it" type. I find fundamental attribution tasteless and I'd slap myself for doing it.
Back to this, I still recognize culture is one of the many components which makes things work, but not the only(culture alone won't have suffice)

And why I keep stressing it is cause you're mistaking my words and I was trying to define my stances, but anyways at least we've got this cleared out, which is good.

Indeed, poor Israel... you would think after all they have gone through they would the civilization that would have the most understanding of others. Instead they now treating others when they are strong just like how others have treated them when they were weak.

That bring up another interesting possibility, in another 50-150 years, will we see another exodus of Israelite?

And I often been accused of others of representing things that I am not, for example when I speak ill of US policy, I have been often been labeled as a terrorist or spy, then I would simply pointing out that criticizing my nation does not mean I wish my nation to fail, it is two different things. But it is often the feeble and the brainwashed that cannot identify the differences, unfortunately it accounts for a large percent of US population.

 

[airsuperiority]

Well yeah, religion was is so obvious it is not worth to bring it up. But what I am saying, is that this is not the absolute barrier that prevent long lasting peace.

Jews and Muslim have been living relatively peacefully with each other for over 1500 years in Middle East, in fact, Jews generally was more accepted in Middle East than in Europe. It is only after WW2 when Israel took of their land the situation got bad.

But again... it is really in Israel's best interest to come up with a successful resolution with the Palestinians long time ago for their own interest, for example make deals with all other Arabs nations to take in some refugee, and at same time, helping the Palestinians to settle in their new homes with economic aids, and further culture cooperation to defuse long term tension.

But what happen is the Palestinians are stuck in refugee camp and their numbers are growing, each new generation are born and taught to hate. And Israel cannot just wipe them out like nations do in the past, so eventually they are doomed to be take over by Palestinians population.

I would NEVER directly compare China with Taiwan, there is absolutely no similarity between the two, however I still think the relationship between China and Taiwan was no less seriously to resolve. And they fact the China and Taiwan both agreed to turn towards a new level of interaction speaks a lot of wisdom from both side.

While Israel further humiliation of Palestinians was an conscious decision which speaks of their failure.

PRC and ROC are a bit more interstate conflicts, but also some cultural, political, and economical factors, I'd say, which lead to it.

For cultural: collectivism and the whole family concept of One China
Political: Reforms for both sides as well as new generations of leaders with new thoughts
Economical: Booming economy and opportunities for both sides

There are much more, but since I'm just sharing my thoughts and not here to write a thesis, I'll just leave it as it is.
One crucial factor I think though, would be the ability for both sides to maintain non-military behaviors. The same goes for the Korean side. At the highest tensions of both sides, military drills or small incidents occurred, but generally nothing that maintained the war pace like the Israelis and the Palestinians.

As for how they can resolve, I still think Western support of Israel should be pulled back much more. I don't believe the Israelis are fighting for the sake of fighting - there's got to be more to it

 

[airsuperiority]

Indeed, poor Israel... you would think after all they have gone through they would the civilization that would have the most understanding of others. Instead they now treating others when they are strong just like how others have treated them when they were weak.

That bring up another interesting possibility, in another 50-150 years, will we see another exodus of Israelite?

And I often been accused of others, for example when I speak ill of US policy, I have been often been labeled as a terrorist or spy, then I would simply pointing out that criticizing my nation does not mean I wish my nation to fail, it is two different things. But it is often the feeble and the brainwashed that cannot identify the differences, unfortunately it accounts for a large percent of US population.

Very correct. "Do not do unto others what you do not want others to do unto you" - I thought after the Holocaust they would understand all of what it's like to be displaced and experience ethnic cleansing...but instead they commit one themselves. I feel that it's perhaps a feeling that they want to grip tightly to their homelands now, but their behaviors are going far beyond that and causing the most serious conflict of this century

 

[jackliu]

PRC and ROC are a bit more interstate conflicts, but also some cultural, political, and economical factors, I'd say, which lead to it.

For cultural: collectivism and the whole family concept of One China
Political: Reforms for both sides as well as new generations of leaders with new thoughts
Economical: Booming economy and opportunities for both sides

There are much more, but since I'm just sharing my thoughts and not here to write a thesis, I'll just leave it as it is.
One crucial factor I think though, would be the ability for both sides to maintain non-military behaviors. The same goes for the Korean side. At the highest tensions of both sides, military drills or small incidents occurred, but generally nothing that maintained the war pace like the Israelis and the Palestinians.

As for how they can resolve, I still think Western support of Israel should be pulled back much more. I don't believe the Israelis are fighting for the sake of fighting - there's got to be more to it

I think cultural aspect is overall a factor that unites, political is the biggest difference since the very beginning to now. Economical is only a new factor only after both side agree to play down the political difference and start trading, so it is overall a positive factor for both.

As for the behavior of stop military activities, this is only done after the 1980s, if you do some research, there has been some bloody skirmish between 2 side many years after 1949. Only during the 80s China was confident of using cultural and economic means to try to resolve the situation, and Taiwan was happy to take the advantage of that.

Problem with Israel and Palestinians is that they never move beyond the initial stage of conflict, then it turn into a cycle of retaliation and retribution. I personally think this has a bit to do with Israel see themselves as a superior race than Palestinians. So how can you make peace with someone if you don't think they are not of your equal. I have a feeling they have became exactly what other people did to them when they were weak and helpless.

 

[airsuperiority]

I think cultural aspect is overall a factor that unites, political is the biggest difference since the very beginning to now. Economical is only a new factor only after both side agree to play down the political difference and start trading, so it is overall a positive factor for both.

As for the behavior of stop military activities, this is only done after the 1980s, if you do some research, there has been some bloody skirmish between 2 side many years after 1949. Only during the 80s China was confident of using cultural and economic means to try to resolve the situation, and Taiwan was happy to take the advantage of that.

Problem with Israel and Palestinians is that they never move beyond the initial stage of conflict, then it turn into a cycle of retaliation and retribution. I personally think this has a bit to do with Israel see themselves as a superior race than Palestinians. So how can you make peace with someone if you don't think they are not of your equal. I have a feeling they have became exactly what other people did to them when they were weak and helpless.

I agree, especially the last paragraph. The Palestinians are put into a helpless position because they don't have their own homes, and Israeli downplaying the opponent is one way to justify one's own actions and that others are lesser and thus not worthy for one's own behaviors to change. I also will blame the Hamas for those rocket attacks which stirs up the nest. I also feel the current Israeli head of state is less interested in working things out.

 

[antiterror13]

China will build the tallest building in the world, will only take 90 days to do it R

Impressive. They have done it to build 30 story building in just 15 days !

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[airsuperiority]

Re: China will build the tallest building in the world, will only take 90 days to do

Impressive. They have done it to build 30 story building in just 15 days !

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It better not go fubar because catching the spotlight but only to lose it to some embarrassment ain't good for China's image. Critics will want to see it collapse, so China better prove them wrong.