World News Thread & Breaking News!!

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solarz

Brigadier
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Nasa is facing an extraordinary backlash from US researchers after it emerged that the space agency has banned Chinese scientists, including those working at US institutions, from a conference on grounds of national security.

Nasa officials rejected applications from Chinese nationals who hoped to attend the meeting at the agency's Ames research centre in California next month citing a law, passed in March, which prohibits anyone from China setting foot in a Nasa building.

The law is part of a broad and aggressive move initiated by congressman Frank Wolf, chair of the House appropriations committee, which has jurisdiction over Nasa. It aims to restrict the foreign nationals' access to Nasa facilities, ostensibly to counter espionage.

But the ban has angered many US scientists who say Chinese students and researchers in their labs are being discriminated against. A growing number of US scientists have now decided to boycott the meeting in protest, with senior academics withdrawing individually, or pulling out their entire research groups.

The conference is being held for US and international teams who work on Nasa's Kepler space telescope programme, which has been searching the cosmos for signs of planets beyond our solar system. The meeting is the most important event in the academic calendar for scientists who specialise in the field.

Alan Boss, co-organiser of the Kepler conference, refused to discuss the issue, but said: "This is not science, it's politics unfortunately."

Geoff Marcy, an astronomy professor at the University of California, Berkeley, who has been tipped to win a Nobel prize for his pioneering work on exoplanets, or planets outside the solar system, called the ban "completely shameful and unethical".

In an email sent to the conference organisers, Marcy said: "In good conscience, I cannot attend a meeting that discriminates in this way. The meeting is about planets located trillions of miles away, with no national security implications," he wrote.

"It is completely unethical for the United States of America to exclude certain countries from pure science research," Marcy told the Guardian. "It's an ethical breach that is unacceptable. You have to draw the line."

Debra Fischer, professor of astronomy at Yale University, said she became aware of the ban only when a Chinese post-doctoral student in her lab, Ji Wang, was rejected from the conference. When Nasa confirmed that Ji was banned because of his nationality, Fischer decided to pull out of the meeting. She told her students: "I cannot say don't go, but I'm boycotting the meeting." Her team followed suit and has withdrawn from the meeting.

The law allows Nasa to apply for a waiver against the ban in special circumstances, but any appeal would have been rejected under a moratorium that has been introduced by the agency's administrator, Charles Bolden.

Chinese applicants were told they could not attend the conference in an email sent by Mark Messersmith, a Kepler project specialist at Nasa Ames. "Unfortunately … federal legislation passed last March forbids us from hosting any citizens of the People's Republic of China at a conference held at facilities of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. Regarding those who are already working at other institutions in the US, due to security issues resulting from recent Congressional actions, they are under the same constraints," according to the email, seen by the Guardian.

The recent Congressional action refers to a broader law passed in July which prohibits Nasa funds from being used to participate or collaborate with China in any way. The law has raised fears among some Nasa-funded scientists that they will have to sever ties with their Chinese collaborators, and no longer take on Chinese students.

Marcy said the law would damage relationships built up between US and Chinese researchers that could be valuable lines of communication if conflicts arose between the two nations in the future.

Sir Martin Rees, Britain's astronomer royal, said he "fully supported" Marcy's position and called the ban "a deplorable 'own goal' by the US".

Chris Lintott, an astronomer at Oxford University, called for a total boycott of the conference until the situation had been resolved. "I'm shocked and upset by the way this policy has been applied. Science is supposed to be open to all and restricting those who can attend by nationality goes against years of practice, going right back to cold war conferences of Russian and western physicists," he said. "The Kepler team should move their conference somewhere else – and I hope everyone boycotts until they do."

Chinese students studying in the US, especially in such highly specialized fields as astronomy and astrophysics, are some of the brightest and most talented scientists in the world. The US is only hurting its own research capabilities by enacting such laws.
 

no_name

Colonel
Regarding both the DC and NYC incidents these were both cases of mentally disturbed people, who cannot be readily identified as such, behaving in suspicious ways, endangering others, close to likely terrorism targets. In the DC case she was even in a car and had used it in the manner of a deadly weapon against the authorities and was close to especially high-value likely terrorism targets. The use of force in these situations are at least understandable though clearly not ideal, and I don't know if they were according to protocol. It is a new low though that I was hoping not to see on this forum for people to pervert these incidents to take cheap politically motivated shots at the Obama administration.

She could have had a bomb in her car and nothing can be certain untile her car is stopped.
It's likely the police may not even be aware of a one year old child on board.
 

ManilaBoy45

Junior Member
HK Journalists Kicked Out of APEC Summit for Shouting at President Aquino

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AFP | Monday, Oct 07, 2013

NUSA DUA, Indonesia - APEC hosts Indonesia on Monday denied stifling press freedom after withdrawing the credentials of nine Hong Kong journalists for shouting questions at the Philippine leader, insisting that they had posed a security threat.Despite protests from Hong Kong's main journalist group, President Benigno Aquino's spokesman also said the journalists had "crossed the line" by aggressively questioning him about a hostage siege in Manila that left eight Hong Kong people dead in 2010.

"We deemed it improper for media to act that way, as they didn't talk normally but they were very demonstrative, like they were protesting," Gatot Dewa Broto, the Indonesian communications ministry official who is in charge of the APEC media centre in Bali, told AFP."So we did this due to security concerns," he said, adding that the press badges of nine Hong Kong journalists had been deactivated.They were free to remain in Bali, but could no longer access the media centre or venues being used for the summit of the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation forum, the official said.Hong Kong media said journalists and technicians were affected from Now TV, RTHK and Commercial Radio.

HK_zps85abcbc6.jpg
 
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Jeff Head

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Chinese students studying in the US, especially in such highly specialized fields as astronomy and astrophysics, are some of the brightest and most talented scientists in the world. The US is only hurting its own research capabilities by enacting such laws.
NASA is required by law to operate within the bounds of US law..

It is true that Chinese students are very bright...but in this case they are also Chinese nationals and their allegiance is to their homeland (as one would expect) and so anything they discover through NASA would end up being directly communicated to and used by the PRC.

The ban does not apply to Chinese students here who are or have become US citizens, so I am sure there are a number of Chinese attending the conference. Now, it may well be likely that such information will find its way to the PRC in any case, but NASA Is required to follow the law.

She could have had a bomb in her car and nothing can be certain untile her car is stopped.
It's likely the police may not even be aware of a one year old child on board.
All true...but shooting her dead after the car was stopped, as she was there, unarmed, in that median, is still an over reaction.

It was not necessary. The fact is, there was no bomb, and she had no weapon...so they could have easily at that point simply have kept discipline, kept he covered, and brought in the people who could examine the vehicle.
 
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plawolf

Lieutenant General
NASA is required by law to operate within the bounds of US law..

It is true that Chinese students are very bright...but in this case they are also Chinese nationals and their allegiance is to their homeland (as one would expect) and so anything they discover through NASA would end up being directly communicated to and used by the PRC.

The ban does not apply to Chinese students here who are or have become US citizens, so I am sure there are a number of Chinese attending the conference. Now, it may well be likely that such information will find its way to the PRC in any case, but NASA Is required to follow the law.

Firstly, its a retarded law, and the fact that it was passed is evidence that there is something very wrong about how laws are passed in the US. And you would know better than me some of the pointless and stupid laws that have been passed.

That law is pure prejudice and discrimination and it isn't even trying to be veiled or subtle about it because the politicians responsible for it passed it precisely to be prejudicial and discriminatory against China to appease the less enlightened element of their constituencies who wants to blame China for all their ills rather than look closer at home.

The only reason the law stopped at Chinese national was because to go further would make the law unpassible, and also because Chinese nationals don't get a vote. Abuse of power comes when people are given authority over people who they do not relate to or have to be accountable to, and this is a classic case of it.

Secondly, the law has nothing to do with national security and was written by people without any background or apparently even a shred of understanding about national security or it would not be so retarded as to place a blanket ban on all NASA facilities. It really boggles the mind how anyone could think a Chinese national merely setting foot in the ball room of a NASA facility could somehow magically steal national security secrets that are not even stored at that facility.

There are already countless safeguards and security measures in place at sensitive facilities and locations to make sure unauthorised personnel don't go where they shouldn't and also to make sure state secrets stay secret. This law adds absolutely nothing to enhance those safeguards and servers no other purpose than to discriminate against Chinese nationals.

The arguement that Chinese nationals might have their first allegiance to their home nation is equally valid to any other nationality so why are Chinese being singled out and not the British, Germans, Russians or anyone else?

This law is pointless, deliberately discriminatory, downright stupid, and a massive own goal for the US. Not only in terms of the damage done to America's reputation, but also in more concrete terms.

After this debacle, who here thinks international insititutions are going to want to hold any more prestigious conferences and events at any NASA facility again any time soon? These events are as much a recruitment and networking opportunity as it is about discussing science, and loosing future events is going to hurt NASA's ability to recruit the best minds in the world.

Speaking of best minds, with this move, the US has effectively alienated all Chinese nationals working in scientific fields in the US. So instead of working for or with NASA, they are going to take all their knowledge and experience from learning and working at top US institutions and go back to China and help China with their space programme.

It is hard to think of a more effective way to help get Chinese nationals to go home and work for China short of the US kicking them out if the country.

There are probably many more wider implications and repercussions I have not even thought of yet, because all of the above was just off the top of my head. If given time and so e resources, I could produce a thesis on why this law is a stupid mistake, and how it should have been written if the goal was actually national security rather than a cheap shot way to score some votes.

Laws should be passed to address wrongs and advance the public interest, not to help bigots get re-elected.
 
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Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Firstly, its a retarded law, and the fact that it was passed is evidence that there is something very wrong about how laws are passed in the US. And you would know better than me some of the pointless and stupid laws that have been passed.

That law is pure prejudice and discrimination and it isn't even trying to be veiled or subtle about it because the politicians responsible for it passed it precisely to be prejudicial and discriminatory against China to appease the less enlightened element of their constituencies who wants to blame China for all their ills rather than look closer at home.

The only reason the law stopped at Chinese national was because to go further would make the law unpassible, and also because Chinese nationals don't get a vote. Abuse of power comes when people are given authority over people who they do not relate to or have to be accountable to, and this is a classic case of it.

Laws should be passed to address wrongs and advance the public interest, not to help bigots get re-elected.
You are completely wrong on this, plawolf.

If it was bigoted against Chinese, it would not allow US citizens who are Chinese to be involved. But Chinese American citizens can be involved.

No one got up and spoke on this law indicating that the reason was because of Chinese heritage, descent, or race. If they had, it would never have had a snow ball's chance in hell of passing. It was because of espionage that has been ongoing for numerous years. Popeye and others have posted a number of those cases here on SD. That has nothing to do with race, it does have to do with competing governments and ideologies wanting to advance their own interests.

As I say, there have been numerous espionage/spying cases in the US that have involved nationals (and some US citizens as well) who have been arrested and then later convicted on espionage charges acting on behalf of the PRC.

Such spying and espionage goes on all the time...on both sides.

I doubt that the PRC would open up any detailed conference on its space technologies to non-Chinese citizen students from the US either.

The US is simply disallowing such attendance precicely because there are ongoing espionage efforts from the PRC directed at US interests. Nothing "bigoted," or "racist" about that, and it was never meant to be.

Some folks may not agree with it...but that was the reason it was voted into law. and passed with a large margin and in a bi-partisn fashion...not because of any bigotry towards people because of their Chinese descent. Heck, some very majpor players in the US military, intelligence services and politics are of Chinese descent and no one is indicating that they should be fired or released because of that.
 

Jeff Head

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Mail Online said:
Tokyo, October 7, 2013

The death toll rose from Japan's deadliest typhoon in two decades.

A powerful typhoon that swept through the country earlier this week killed at least 69 people, police said, and hopes were fading for 19 missing in floods and landslides.

Typhoon Tokage - "lizard" in Japanese - was the record 10th to hit Japan this year. Normally, about three make landfall during the typhoon season that usually ends in late October.

Many people died in landslides set off by heavy rains while others were caught in flooding or were swept away by massive waves as the storm cut a swathe through southern and central Japan before heading out to sea east of Tokyo on Thursday.

Thirty-seven mostly elderly passengers who had been trapped on the roof of a bus overnight by raging floodwaters left hospital, where they were being treated for exposure, telling reporters they tied the bus's curtains around their waists to keep from being swept away and sang to keep their spirits up.

"At that time, I really thought it was all over," one woman was quoted by Kyodo news agency as saying.

"But all of us managed to remain strong."

Others around Japan began shovelling mud from their homes and taking stock of their losses.

"The water came, the water went. Now everything is mud," an elderly woman told national broadcaster NHK as she tossed a sodden cushion into a dust bin.

With time passing, hopes were fading for the missing as rescuers dug through the rubble of collapsed houses.
 

mr.bean

Junior Member
You are completely wrong on this, plawolf.

If it was bigoted against Chinese, it would not allow US citizens who are Chinese to be involved. But Chinese American citizens can be involved.

No one got up and spoke on this law indicating that the reason was because of Chinese heritage, descent, or race. If they had, it would never have had a snow ball's chance in hell of passing. It was because of espionage that has been ongoing for numerous years. Popeye and others have posted a number of those cases here on SD. That has nothing to do with race, it does have to do with competing governments and ideologies wanting to advance their own interests.

As I say, there have been numerous espionage/spying cases in the US that have involved nationals (and some US citizens as well) who have been arrested and then later convicted on espionage charges acting on behalf of the PRC.

Such spying and espionage goes on all the time...on both sides.

I doubt that the PRC would open up any detailed conference on its space technologies to non-Chinese citizen students from the US either.

The US is simply disallowing such attendance precicely because there are ongoing espionage efforts from the PRC directed at US interests. Nothing "bigoted," or "racist" about that, and it was never meant to be.

Some folks may not agree with it...but that was the reason it was voted into law. and passed with a large margin and in a bi-partisn fashion...not because of any bigotry towards people because of their Chinese descent. Heck, some very majpor players in the US military, intelligence services and politics are of Chinese descent and no one is indicating that they should be fired or released because of that.

yes its a very stupid law but a law nonetheless. it's an anti china law plain and simple. if we look at all those anti china US politicians and the things they say and do then this law is not surprising at all. the US wants to shut china out of space plain and simple it will do anything and everything it can to make sure any china space program will fail. but this only adds fuel to the Chinese to work even harder by themselves because they can only do it themselves. I don't think Chinese should make a big deal out of this law, the americans are free to do as they please, its their country. but Chinese should use this as another good motivation to work harder on their own space efforts. every success china achieves in space is a middle finger to the anti china bashing goons in Washington. the best revenge is success.
 

Jeff Head

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Registered Member
it's an anti china law plain and simple.

US wants to shut china out of space plain and simple it will do anything and everything it can to make sure any china space program will fail. but this only adds fuel to the Chinese to work even harder by themselves because they can only do it themselves. I don't think Chinese should make a big deal out of this law, the americans are free to do as they please, its their country.
The US holds an edge in space technologies, exploration, etc. at this point. When it comes to dual use technologies the US will take no chances, and the US clearly does not want to give the PRC any opportunity to either get parity or leap ahead in those areas if it can help it.

That does not mean theat the US is against other nations utilizing space. The International Space Station and the work that has gone on there, along with the cooperation of many nations shows this.

However, there is no doubt that the US will guard what it considers to be dual use technologies for space jealously and this law is definitely all about that.

Other nations, including China, do the same, and understandably so.
 
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