What if it was an drunk canadian pissing against a wall? how often does that happen? maybe after a big night out perhaps? it's not unusual. So why do people make such an exception when they see mainlanders do something wrong? I'm not trying to excuse poor etiquette, but it seems to me that there is a particularly disdain, a kind of schadenfreude that people adopt where ever (mainland)China is involved - every topic no matter how trivial becomes a measure of "morality" or "civility"; anything to reaffirmed the idea that mainland chinese are simply not quite civilised, amoral subhumans.
You say it gives "chinese" a bad name. Well some of the most racists and dehumanising remarks about mainlanders come from hongkonger, how do you think the world see it? Do you think they sympathise with HK'er out of kindness or that they bandwagon anti-china sentiment purely out of spite and political misgivings against China in general? Do you think it helps "chinese people" when they see one group of "chinese" label another "chinese" as locusts, degenerates and so on? Do you believe it will help empower you in the eyes of the westerners; help raise your status in western society? Do you think that if you disavowed everything "chinese" about yourself that westerners will no longer look and treat you differently? Do you think mass media hysteria and moral grandstanding will helps to build trust and understanding or simply shame and alienate them even more?
Do HK'er hold the same level of contempt for rowdy westerners in HK? Ever been to Bali? Ever seen western backpackers in Pattaya puking, pissing and generally treating the place like their private penthouse/brothel/whatever? Why are some things tolerated and excused as being the "norm"; "a rite of passage", but it's national headline when some mainland hick pisses into a bin? How can thousands of backpacking western kids can get away with acting like complete idiots in foreign countries but when a handful of spoiled rich chinese kids misbehave it's mass moral panic, cultural decline and various sweeping generalisation about a nation of 1.3 billion people? Why are the mainlanders so often described as vapid and materialistic when China has some of highest personal saving rates/lowest private debt in the world, while Americans are amongst the highest?
Originally I posted that and wasnt planning to reply in this thread, because there's too many people full of pro-China bias that I just don't even want to spend energy debating anymore.
1. Your first whole paragraph I knew that already. I actually took your stance and challenged them for doing just that. I'm very clear of what goes on in HK, and unlike the pro-China supporters, I don't always defend HK no matter the cost. I actually even criticize them for it.
2. There are 2 types of Westerners. The playful ones and the douchebags. The playful ones don't always cause too much commotion, but the douchebags just simply do what they do, and they do it in HK, I've seen HK people standing up to their behaviors. HK don't really tolerate douchebags, no matter whether you're from mainland China or US. (Well some people do demonstrate the typical "Asian don't want trouble" behavior, but people are getting more assertive already.)
3. I don't know where those weird assumptions you're bringing in near the end. No one thinks Americans save money.We rarely hear of White parents bringing their kids to pee in trash cans, but there's plenty of mainland Chinese visitors doing exactly that, getting caught, sometimes even recorded on camera, and when confronted, they spaz at others for attempting to correct them. There are even videos and instances of an adult woman peeing right outside Apple, taking a shit at those pot plants in malls. There are so much of these in HK, everyone knew. If you think people take event of SINGLE occurrences and cook it up, then you're right. Problem is, there are so many examples of recurrences, they turn into a conventional stereotype eventually. That's also why no one associate White people with taking a shit at inappropriate places, but do stereotype Whites as divorce often and "very open about sexuality". The same idea goes on towards India full of gang-rapes now, but then this is the result of media's selective stories on that matters after the famous incident last year. The recent kidnapped blind boy in China is an example: We rarely hear of something so cruel, even from China. That's why no one will associate China with gorging little boys' eyes out: it only happened once(thankfully), and people know it's some sick b!tch out there who did this. Normal people don't do that. I'm not saying stereotype is to be justified, but just explaining that stereotypes do not appear fictionally - there has to be something to create this in the first place, and it repeats. It's like a habit that gets conditioned.
And also why rich mainland Chinese gets thrown the light of them being arrogant, filthy, and rude is because that's exactly what some of them do. They display an arrogant attitude to pedestrians as they walk towards their Chanel or what not. They then drive a fancy Benz but wildly and when people accuse them of being reckless, they throw their tantrum back at people. And why it becomes an issue in HK is because many of them exhibit that behavior. People don't identify rich people automatically unless there's something to display, such as wearing brands and what not. This is why rich mainland Chinese are identified as being rude: they wear brands all over while going out and throwing attitudes - they give something for others to identify them with. Odds are, if you're Bill Gates but you don't wear anything fancy and don't demonstrate rude behavior, no one would think you're rich or rude or both.
Maybe you should turn around and think, if where you live, a group of people shows up doing certain things, eventually you will have reasons to start thinking their group does that. It would then be almost just as explainable as those who started to see certain mainland Chinese in a stereotypical view, although that doesn't mean it's right.
Mass moral panic? Plenty of Western backpackers were known for disrespecting their environment too. Hostel owners and tourist areas would know best. Stop giving me your assumptions that people permit Westerners.
I'm not sure where you're from, but I'm sick of hearing people just "standing up to defend China" for things they actually sometimes are responsible for, and then instead turning it on others. I mean, what's the point? Defend China? prove others wrong? Or to continuously reassure yourself that China is great utopia that everyone misunderstands? Honestly buddy, there are some things that does happen in China, and maybe it's better to acknowledge the problems and fix it instead of those standard defense that I'm so tired of hearing.
The saddest thing of all is you guys are defending people who deserves to be judged that way. And that, I mean those who are responsible for this impression they built for others. Others don't deserve that stereotype and it's unfair for them, but stereotypes do occur for a reason, and then it's for the ingroup to correct the behaviors of those guilty members, NOT defend them too and say others are accusing them. This is why "the West" gets China wrong: YOU GUYS. You guys just blindly defend all day, whether patriotism or whatever. To others, you're not acknowledging something people may see an issue with, and rather just display a bias that lets people feel people in China are just stubborn and refused to acknowledge their own problems. Why do you think some stereotypes stick longer than others? In a sense, it's starting to be true, because people like you guys are also the cause. By ignoring what's factual and problematic, that's like sticking your head in the dirt, while some others continue what they're doing. What difference is this from rednecks who maintain America is always right? Really? Any difference?
When bad things happen in China, in this forum, we don't see anyone discussing the problems, or addressing there's a legitimate concern. Instead you guys turned the focus ON the West like it's their fault. You guys started turning the spear on the West for focusing on these stories, while no one even discussed the issue at hand. Yes I do think the Western press is biased, but you guys are as well. Any difference from how some people in US, also the US government, turned the focus onto China during elections or when they run into unpopular events?
Finally, in HK, mainland Chinese tourists expects everyone to speak Mandarin to them, and some even shunned Cantonese. That's so goddamn disrespectful. It's fine if they can't speak Cantonese to us, as we can attempt to speak Mandarin...as people is about communicating with one another. Or even if the other way they attempt to try speaking Cantonese, we will actually appreciate them for trying. However, them asserting we have to speak to them in Mandarin, then that's completely arrogant. We are all equal. Them imposing us to speak their language is exerting their superiority or dominance on us.
These people always talk about nationalism and stuffs, but knows absolutely nothing about respecting others. In other words, thats ethnocentric arrogance, and the belief that others should serve them. Just as disgusting as those Americans who are arrogant and thinks the world revolves around them. NO difference. Seriously, that's not the real Chinese culture is about. Them being Chinese is an embarrassment to us all.
