Why "the West" gets China wrong

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Equation

Lieutenant General
Basically to understand modern China today, people needs to go back and start reading several Chinese history books. YES it might be boring to read for some, but hey it's information and facts that are critical to understand the full depth and scope of the subject matter.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
People who espouse a philosophy but don't follow it themselves are looking for control not civility hiding their desire for power by exploiting people's desire for civility.
 

pissybits

Junior Member
I haven't heard of her, but she's not the only one.

That's why I don't believe this idea that they are "exploiting westerner's ignorance about China". Ignorance implies a lack of knowledge. If that were the case, authors who write positive or neutral works about modern Chinese history should get an equal share of attention.

That has obviously not been the case. Compare the attention that Mo Yan, Nobel Literature prize winner and one of modern China's most famous authors, gets in the West to the attention that the likes of Jun Chang gets. Look at the amount of media coverage Ai Weiwei gets. There is a clear pattern here, and it's not just ignorance.


i think you can very well call it ignorance. granted, there is a culture of misinformation in about china in the west that is in many ways the remnant of the cold war. with this cultural background, you have to remember that it is always sensationalism that attracts eyeballs and sells books/articles, that is why tabloids are the most popular form of journalism no matter how ridiculous the stories.

jun chang, li zhisui, and fu ping have exploited a political angle to make money and gain influence by writing sensationalism stories. likewise, ai weiwei's work as a postmodern artist is sensationalist in nature and thus becomes easily employed by such political forces in the west. one of the reasons for the vitality of such a political angle in the west goes back to what i assert to be a sense of threat, and the feeling of self-gratification once those feelings are alleviated by something negative about china. (the "we're still number 1" psychology)

however this political charade would not be possible if it were not for the overwhelming ignorance and lack of knowledge most westerners have about china. and such ignorance is exacerbated and allowed to flourish because:

1. political pandering to the "we're still number 1" psychology in the west in the face of a rising china.

2. the paucity of objective historical analysis coming from china which also prefers to censor its own history through a particular tint.

the situation that results is a vicious cycle of ignorance begetting ignorance.
 

pissybits

Junior Member
People who espouse a philosophy but don't follow it themselves are looking for control not civility hiding their desire for power by exploiting people's desire for civility.

i assume you are addressing me... very relevant and non-defamatory at all.

cool it bosun, you win the internets
 

solarz

Brigadier
i think you can very well call it ignorance. granted, there is a culture of misinformation in about china in the west that is in many ways the remnant of the cold war. with this cultural background, you have to remember that it is always sensationalism that attracts eyeballs and sells books/articles, that is why tabloids are the most popular form of journalism no matter how ridiculous the stories.

jun chang, li zhisui, and fu ping have exploited a political angle to make money and gain influence by writing sensationalism stories. likewise, ai weiwei's work as a postmodern artist is sensationalist in nature and thus becomes easily employed by such political forces in the west. one of the reasons for the vitality of such a political angle in the west goes back to what i assert to be a sense of threat, and the feeling of self-gratification once those feelings are alleviated by something negative about china. (the "we're still number 1" psychology)

however this political charade would not be possible if it were not for the overwhelming ignorance and lack of knowledge most westerners have about china. and such ignorance is exacerbated and allowed to flourish because:

1. political pandering to the "we're still number 1" psychology in the west in the face of a rising china.

2. the paucity of objective historical analysis coming from china which also prefers to censor its own history through a particular tint.

the situation that results is a vicious cycle of ignorance begetting ignorance.

What kind of censoring does China do about its history? If you're thinking of the GLF or the Cultural Revolution, then I can tell you that these are far from censored topics. Unless by "censored", you mean they don't keep harping on about how Mao killed "80 million" people.

I agree with you that there is a kind of "yellow peril" mentality in the West. What I don't agree is to term that mentality "ignorance". Ignorance implies that it can be remedied with information and communication. That is simply not happening.
 

pissybits

Junior Member
What kind of censoring does China do about its history? If you're thinking of the GLF or the Cultural Revolution, then I can tell you that these are far from censored topics. Unless by "censored", you mean they don't keep harping on about how Mao killed "80 million" people.

I agree with you that there is a kind of "yellow peril" mentality in the West. What I don't agree is to term that mentality "ignorance". Ignorance implies that it can be remedied with information and communication. That is simply not happening.

the cultural revolution has been the subject of many "scar dramas" and books published afterward, this is understandable because the current ccp elites in china are descended from the very same people that suffered when mao pitted the red guards against the ruling establishment. after his death, they wanted to tell their stories of how they suffered and thus the positive legacy of the cultural revolution has more or less been overturned in the orthodox version of chinese history.

deng xiaoping for example was among mao's foremost targets, and many people in the ruling elite to this day have a grudge against mao, but they cannot refute him because of his popularity with the common people. i know this firsthand because i'm from hunan, and there's no place in the world that worships mao like hunan. even though the current regime allows criticism of the cultural revolution to a certain extent, direct and honest criticism of mao himself is at least supressed if we can't say prohibited.

a year ago i tried looking both on the chinese and western internet for the best objective biography on mao, because many of the books out there seem to carry a heavy bias either for or against him. in the end, many western commentators concluded that steven levine and alexander pantsov's "mao: the real story" is the most objective. what was interesting was that chinese commentators seemed to agree. (i am still interested in finding an objective book on mao from china if anyone here has found one)

events like the three years of hardship, (during the GLF) and the tumultuous political movements of the time like the anti-rightist campaign, the hundred flowers movement, etc; are not really taught to kids in history class in china. these events might be discussed privately among some individuals, but there are very few well-researched academic and sociological works to come out of the mainland that truly talk about them in an open way. and when they do they are not part of the mainstream historical discussion in schools and universities. because of this fact, many of the details of these hugely important events are relegated to the realm of hearsay.

similarly, open discussion of the 64 incident is completely prohibited in china. in fact, some of the government officials directly involved in the crackdown (like li peng) had to publish their memoirs on the incident in hong kong, and media references to 64 in china are still completely forbidden. this most definitely contributes toward an atmosphere of ignorance, intrigue, and rumours.
 
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solarz

Brigadier
events like the three years of hardship, (during the GLF) and the tumultuous political movements of the time like the anti-rightist campaign, the hundred flowers movement, etc; are not really taught to kids in history class in china. these events might be discussed privately among some individuals, but there are very few well-researched academic and sociological works to come out of the mainland that truly talk about them in an open way. and when they do they are not part of the mainstream historical discussion in schools and universities. because of this fact, many of the details of these hugely important events are relegated to the realm of hearsay.

similarly, open discussion of the 64 incident is completely prohibited in china. in fact, some of the government officials directly involved in the crackdown (like li peng) had to publish their memoirs on the incident in hong kong, and media references to 64 in china are still completely forbidden. this most definitely contributes toward an atmosphere of ignorance, intrigue, and rumours.

I don't think those are examples of censorship. What is not taught in schools cannot constitute evidence of censorship, especially when such issues are openly discussed in society:

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The 3rd article even lists scholarly references to studies on the GLF.

As for the June 4th incident, it is still a recent and sensitive issue. The Chinese government's policy on censorship is entirely geared toward preventing subversion, and the June 4th incident is the very catalyst that prompted the current policies. As successive administrations become more distanced toward the June 4th incident, we will see more open discussions on it in Chinese society.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
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Final notice before shut down.

Effective 1 September 2013 ALL political threads will be closed and no other political threads shall be open.

So it is written.. so it shall be done.


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Sometimes people here, or those in China, kept saying the world misunderstands China...but to be honest, before accusing others, please act up and not give others something to complain about. This already happened in HK, and now it struck Vancouver. These people give Chinese a very bad name.
 

ABC78

Junior Member
Oliver Stone and Peter Kuznick talked about their book,*The Untold History of the United States, in which they argue that U.S. leaders must first honestly face what they called the country’s troubling history of drifting farther away from its democratic traditions, before charting courses for America’s future. They also talk about China in the book.

[video]http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/Kuz[/video]
 
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