Why "the West" gets China wrong

Equation · Aug 31, 2013

airsuperiority said:
I'm not sure where you're from, but I'm sick of hearing people just "standing up to defend China" for things they actually sometimes are responsible for, and then instead turning it on others. I mean, what's the point? Defend China? prove others wrong? Or to continuously reassure yourself that China is great utopia that everyone misunderstands? Honestly buddy, there are some things that does happen in China, and maybe it's better to acknowledge the problems and fix it instead of those standard defense that I'm so tired of hearing.

The saddest thing of all is you guys are defending people who deserves to be judged that way. And that, I mean those who are responsible for this impression they built for others. Others don't deserve that stereotype and it's unfair for them, but stereotypes do occur for a reason, and then it's for the ingroup to correct the behaviors of those guilty members, NOT defend them too and say others are accusing them. This is why "the West" gets China wrong: YOU GUYS. You guys just blindly defend all day, whether patriotism or whatever. To others, you're not acknowledging something people may see an issue with, and rather just display a bias that lets people feel people in China are just stubborn and refused to acknowledge their own problems. Why do you think some stereotypes stick longer than others? In a sense, it's starting to be true, because people like you guys are also the cause. By ignoring what's factual and problematic, that's like sticking your head in the dirt, while some others continue what they're doing. What difference is this from rednecks who maintain America is always right? Really? Any difference?

When bad things happen in China, in this forum, we don't see anyone discussing the problems, or addressing there's a legitimate concern. Instead you guys turned the focus ON the West like it's their fault. You guys started turning the spear on the West for focusing on these stories, while no one even discussed the issue at hand. Yes I do think the Western press is biased, but you guys are as well. Any difference from how some people in US, also the US government, turned the focus onto China during elections or when they run into unpopular events?

Really? So now when ever a Western media exaggerates a "Mainland Chinese problem" all you white wash Hong Kongers want the rest of to just jump at the their commands and demand what they see as proper behavior for all Chinese? This such an "Uncle Tom" cop out which I hate about some self hated Chinese.

airsuperiority said:
Finally, in HK, mainland Chinese tourists expects everyone to speak Mandarin to them, and some even shunned Cantonese. That's so goddamn disrespectful. It's fine if they can't speak Cantonese to us, as we can attempt to speak Mandarin...as people is about communicating with one another. Or even if the other way they attempt to try speaking Cantonese, we will actually appreciate them for trying. However, them asserting we have to speak to them in Mandarin, then that's completely arrogant. We are all equal. Them imposing us to speak their language is exerting their superiority or dominance on us.

Hmmm...did the British elites and Royal families expect you Hong Kongers to speak English to them whenever they decided to come to the colony for a visit?

airsuperiority said:
These people always talk about nationalism and stuffs, but knows absolutely nothing about respecting others. In other words, thats ethnocentric arrogance, and the belief that others should serve them. Just as disgusting as those Americans who are arrogant and thinks the world revolves around them. NO difference. Seriously, that's not the real Chinese culture is about. Them being Chinese is an embarrassment to us all.

What about the Hong Kongers "ethnocentric arrogance" towards mainlanders, and you know there are, so don't pretend it doesn't exist? While your too busy playing the good liberal world citizen to appeal to your elite white friends of the world, the rest of Chinese are busy progressing and increasing living standards for all to enjoy.

AssassinsMace · Aug 31, 2013

Very good point, Equation, about the British expecting English to be spoken. Another example of how Hong Kong accepted from the British what they don't from the Mainland just like also the always non-democratic government they left behind. The legacy of colonialism includes punishing indigenous people in their own country with brutality and fining for every word not spoken in the conqueror's language. I've been reading in the Wall Street Journal on the bus strike in Singapore. The Singapore government took the strike leaders and beat them after being jailed to be used as an example to intimidate and discourage the other Chinese migrants exploited by the Singapore government from ever striking. The Singapore people seem to be taking the same attitude of Hong Kong. I wonder what Hong Kongers think about migrant mainland Chinese workers striking because of unfair and discriminatory treatment in Singapore. Hong Kongers are suppose to be looking out for human rights of the Mainland Chinese people which many of the protests against China hide behind. In rich Singapore they pay Malaysian bus drivers more when they want more because Singapore is afraid of historical racial strife rearing its ugly head once again but they seem comfortable to screw the Chinese.

This is why China has to seek the power to defend itself and not listen to like the US saying China doesn't need a navy of its own because it has no enemies and it will protect the sea lanes for China. You don't hear the US pressuring Singapore to embrace true democracy where workers can strike without being brutalized in jail. All is not equal in that system if they can cry for workers rights on the mainland but not say a word when those very same workers rights are violated in a country they like.

airsuperiority · Aug 31, 2013

Equation said:
Really? So now when ever a Western media exaggerates a "Mainland Chinese problem" all you white wash Hong Kongers want the rest of to just jump at the their commands and demand what they see as proper behavior for all Chinese? This such an "Uncle Tom" cop out which I hate about some self hated Chinese.

Hmmm...did the British elites and Royal families expect you Hong Kongers to speak English to them whenever they decided to come to the colony for a visit?

What about the Hong Kongers "ethnocentric arrogance" towards mainlanders, and you know there are, so don't pretend it doesn't exist? While your too busy playing the good liberal world citizen to appeal to your elite white friends of the world, the rest of Chinese are busy progressing and increasing living standards for all to enjoy.

There's nothing even worthwhile to reply to in this post. It's so funny how you think HK people gets our thoughts from Western media. Just so you know, we're just right across the border.

While your too busy playing the good liberal world citizen to appeal to your elite white friends of the world, the rest of Chinese are busy progressing and increasing living standards for all to enjoy.

This sentence is so arrogant and ignorant lol. I gotta love it when you post sometimes. You throw out so much non-factual insults and name-calling..you know, it's really childish.

airsuperiority · Aug 31, 2013

AssassinsMace said:
The reason why what you say is not discussed in some pro-China denial you just have to look at the few threads you have started here and they've been closed. Too political? You do know I can say the same about the Hong Kong mentality. I've mentioned plenty times before how Mainland Chinese tourism is a recent event yet the very stereotypes you bring up have been around heard of for decades here in the US. They didn't come from the Mainland. Where did it come from? I can call that denial. Does anyone remember the popular US TV show Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous hosted by Robin Leech? I remember someone asked him the question who were the worst rich people in the world he's ever met? Yeah, that's right! Hong Kong. That show was on air way before the handover. What's despicable to me is how easily the Chinese outside the Mainland who started the bad behavior stereotypes act like they're not guilty of it themselves.

Sometimes I don't even know why some of the threads are closed. Some aren't even political.Some admittedly are like you've said, and some are the result of the flames that erupted later on.

As for HK mentality, I think I've mentioned already, I am very fully aware of what's going on, and I've been very vocal and combative about it. Don't think I criticize China alone and only. I criticized the West, HK just as equally, and engaged in idiots and denials there as well. I bring their problems to them and take them on. I don't care who it is, as long as I make a valid point and have my facts. I just don't have to report to anyone here and tell them that's what I do, because it's my own thing. My intentions aren't for feeling good about myself; I simply believe in what's right and feel it's our power to make a voice about what's right and wrong. China has so much of its own problems, just as HK have its own. The issue is if people takes a problem and what they do with it. Do they do something positive about it? Or will they sit around and do nothing or ignore? My former boss said the Taiwanese government spent millions of dollars to teach the Taiwanese people how to line in queues. I respect that. Because of SARS, the HK government and the people took up hygiene much more serious than before. I feel proud telling people of this. The Germans took their responsibilities for WWII, and we respect them for it. The Japanese government denied responsibilities for WWII, and we're all really angry. We're all really angry at Aquino and his failed government for refusing to acknowledge responsibilities properly. A lot goes the same towards how the US government handled many things. Now etiquette, manners, rudeness, aren't new problems in China. I don't care what you say about tourists, or what a stupid TV show talks about. (And I mean really, come on you're going to quote a stupid TV show to reinforce your opinions Assassin? You can do way better than that man. Shows like those how often are they going to go out and say US rich people are the worst? And no offense but that guy sounds like an arrogant douche as well. A TV show where someone asks you and you go tell others rich people from a certain country is rude? That sounds so Donald Trump-style arrogance. ) It's quite an issue because if it's something that's happening a lot in HK and it's due to mainland tourism, then this says something about some of the tourists who visited the city. Also, it's important to move with time. Even IF some stereotypes were caused by non mainland Chinese previously, the question becomes if those groups still do those things or have they stopped. If they have stopped, then that's fine it's not their fault anymore. If they did, then they should stop too. It doesn't matter who, as long as you did it you should be accountable. That's why no one breathes down on Germany anymore.

And I mean, shouldn't you guys ask yourselves if you guys are being too defensive for China like always? Can you guys not accept there's something China does do wrong and stop denying about it? And stop turning it on others and say it's them throwing the spotlight? You know, the whole "world hates me" victim mentality is an adolescent thing which they use to defend themselves and their habits, and to reinforce what they do. If you don't do it, why do you need to defend such an action? If/When you guys come to me and say HK people are racist towards mainland China, I had no problem with saying yea I agree, but that's some people and what they do is wrong. I can say that because I know it's a fact, and I have no shame in admitting it. There's no shame in admitting your weakness; it's denial that's twice as despicable. And for the matter, I've met mostly nice mainland Chinese or almost none who are douche towards me. I even had friends from Chengdu to help support my arguments to tell others that Chinese people are nice too...however that doesn't mean problems could be swept under the rug. These are still things you guys should face and take a stand about.

- boy gets eyes gouged out
- cat's hind legs gets mutilated -- animal cruelty
- running people over and running them over again to kill so no need to pay for victim's health costs
- poisonous food...too many examples
- shitting in public areas of inappropriate places
- demanding others to speak mandarin to them and disrespecting other's culture and law
- throw wealth around
- claims the world to revolve around them because they have the money
- not lining up, rudeness, yelling at others when others correct them(sometimes HK people share this one too)
- exploiting HK's benefits and welfare (the ungrateful group):
- pregnant moms coming to HK to give birth so they can leech off HK's benefits while they continue to complain how HK government isn't doing more for them and continuing to whine about our city
- randomly calling people discriminate them when in fact they are the ones causing problems in the first place

and I'm not even talking about other societal issues such as prostitutions, scams, illegal organ harvesting, because it's not fair to bring those ones up.

There are many very other tragic events and I won't list them because some are individual cases and won't deserve to be mentioned and are tailored towards individuals. It's kind of like how there are plenty of exceptional cruelty events and those are just simply people and their psychological stress. (For example that guy who slashed and killed children..it's an apparent case of him having issues and are not something that could be said about Chinese people or a group of people in general. This is also why and how some cases are individual, and some are classified as phenomenal. Example again is, people with mental disorder is individual, but the accessibility to guns permits more violence is then what turns an individual case into an issue. This of course, is talking about the US)

airsuperiority · Aug 31, 2013

AssassinsMace said:
Very good point, Equation, about the British expecting English to be spoken. Another example of how Hong Kong accepted from the British what they don't from the Mainland just like also the always non-democratic government they left behind. The legacy of colonialism includes punishing indigenous people in their own country with brutality and fining for every word not spoken in the conqueror's language. I've been reading in the Wall Street Journal on the bus strike in Singapore. The Singapore government took the strike leaders and beat them after being jailed to be used as an example to intimidate and discourage the other Chinese migrants exploited by the Singapore government from ever striking. The Singapore people seem to be taking the same attitude of Hong Kong. I wonder what Hong Kongers think about migrant mainland Chinese workers striking because of unfair and discriminatory treatment in Singapore. Hong Kongers are suppose to be looking out for human rights of the Mainland Chinese people which many of the protests against China hide behind. In rich Singapore they pay Malaysian bus drivers more when they want more because Singapore is afraid of historical racial strife rearing its ugly head once again but they seem comfortable to screw the Chinese.

This is why China has to seek the power to defend itself and not listen to like the US saying China doesn't need a navy of its own because it has no enemies and it will protect the sea lanes for China. You don't hear the US pressuring Singapore to embrace true democracy where workers can strike without being brutalized in jail. All is not equal in that system if they can cry for workers rights on the mainland but not say a word when those very same workers rights are violated in a country they like.

For that, HK people are supportive of workers fighting for their rights in China because they deserve to, and shouldn't be pushed around by their unethical employers. For those in HK, most of those who came to HK to seek work are very hard-working and they are the ones who gets more positive impression. Some even tried to speak Cantonese, which is good..although some are still really rude.

As for a ruling government introducing a new language to the local education system, I seriously don't see how that's supposed to be "punishment"

Equation · Aug 31, 2013

airsuperiority said:
There's nothing even worthwhile to reply to in this post. It's so funny how you think HK people gets our thoughts from Western media. Just so you know, we're just right across the border.

This sentence is so arrogant and ignorant lol. I gotta love it when you post sometimes. You throw out so much non-factual insults and name-calling..you know, it's really childish.

You may be across the border but your way of thinking and attitudes towards mainland Chinese are way out of nowhere. Accusing me of being arrogant and childish still does not hide from the fact that you wanted your way of thinking to be supreme over others.

airsuperiority said:
Sometimes I don't even know why some of the threads are closed. Some aren't even political.Some admittedly are like you've said, and some are the result of the flames that erupted later on.

As for HK mentality, I think I've mentioned already, I am very fully aware of what's going on, and I've been very vocal and combative about it. Don't think I criticize China alone and only. I criticized the West, HK just as equally, and engaged in idiots and denials there as well. I bring their problems to them and take them on. I don't care who it is, as long as I make a valid point and have my facts. I just don't have to report to anyone here and tell them that's what I do, because it's my own thing. My intentions aren't for feeling good about myself; I simply believe in what's right and feel it's our power to make a voice about what's right and wrong. China has so much of its own problems, just as HK have its own. The issue is if people takes a problem and what they do with it. Do they do something positive about it? Or will they sit around and do nothing or ignore? My former boss said the Taiwanese government spent millions of dollars to teach the Taiwanese people how to line in queues. I respect that. Because of SARS, the HK government and the people took up hygiene much more serious than before. I feel proud telling people of this. The Germans took their responsibilities for WWII, and we respect them for it. The Japanese government denied responsibilities for WWII, and we're all really angry. We're all really angry at Aquino and his failed government for refusing to acknowledge responsibilities properly. A lot goes the same towards how the US government handled many things. Now etiquette, manners, rudeness, aren't new problems in China. I don't care what you say about tourists, or what a stupid TV show talks about. (And I mean really, come on you're going to quote a stupid TV show to reinforce your opinions Assassin? You can do way better than that man. Shows like those how often are they going to go out and say US rich people are the worst? And no offense but that guy sounds like an arrogant douche as well. A TV show where someone asks you and you go tell others rich people from a certain country is rude? That sounds so Donald Trump-style arrogance. ) It's quite an issue because if it's something that's happening a lot in HK and it's due to mainland tourism, then this says something about some of the tourists who visited the city. Also, it's important to move with time. Even IF some stereotypes were caused by non mainland Chinese previously, the question becomes if those groups still do those things or have they stopped. If they have stopped, then that's fine it's not their fault anymore. If they did, then they should stop too. It doesn't matter who, as long as you did it you should be accountable. That's why no one breathes down on Germany anymore.

And I mean, shouldn't you guys ask yourselves if you guys are being too defensive for China like always? Can you guys not accept there's something China does do wrong and stop denying about it? And stop turning it on others and say it's them throwing the spotlight? You know, the whole "world hates me" victim mentality is an adolescent thing which they use to defend themselves and their habits, and to reinforce what they do. If you don't do it, why do you need to defend such an action? If/When you guys come to me and say HK people are racist towards mainland China, I had no problem with saying yea I agree, but that's some people and what they do is wrong. I can say that because I know it's a fact, and I have no shame in admitting it. There's no shame in admitting your weakness; it's denial that's twice as despicable. And for the matter, I've met mostly nice mainland Chinese or almost none who are douche towards me. I even had friends from Chengdu to help support my arguments to tell others that Chinese people are nice too...however that doesn't mean problems could be swept under the rug. These are still things you guys should face and take a stand about.

- boy gets eyes gouged out
- cat's hind legs gets mutilated -- animal cruelty
- running people over and running them over again to kill so no need to pay for victim's health costs
- poisonous food...too many examples
- shitting in public areas of inappropriate places
- demanding others to speak mandarin to them and disrespecting other's culture and law
- throw wealth around
- claims the world to revolve around them because they have the money
- not lining up, rudeness, yelling at others when others correct them(sometimes HK people share this one too)
- exploiting HK's benefits and welfare (the ungrateful group):
- pregnant moms coming to HK to give birth so they can leech off HK's benefits while they continue to complain how HK government isn't doing more for them and continuing to whine about our city
- randomly calling people discriminate them when in fact they are the ones causing problems in the first place

Yep all written and covered by Western reporters where it happens in their own countries by their own people as well, BUT with the added gun violence to all that. You might want to take off them Only the WEST Can Do No Wrong blind fold and see the light of the world in reality. Sure there are problems in China and in the US as well, but I like to let the locals deal with their own problems instead of the media dictating it. You seem to be hell bent on wanting the world to see that Chinese can be self critical and commit actions whenever the media tells them to. Gee wiz wake up kiddo, life is not about appeasing to them.

Equation · Aug 31, 2013

airsuperiority said:
For that, HK people are supportive of workers fighting for their rights in China because they deserve to, and shouldn't be pushed around by their unethical employers. For those in HK, most of those who came to HK to seek work are very hard-working and they are the ones who gets more positive impression. Some even tried to speak Cantonese, which is good..although some are still really rude.

As for a ruling government introducing a new language to the local education system, I seriously don't see how that's supposed to be "punishment"

Hmmm....does that include those foreign house maids from Southeast Asian countries and the Philippines who gets abused by their HK bosses and employers as well? Must be nice to talk about ethics when you're hiding your dirt under the rugs isn't it?

AssassinsMace · Aug 31, 2013

airsuperiority said:
Sometimes I don't even know why some of the threads are closed. Some aren't even political.Some admittedly are like you've said, and some are the result of the flames that erupted later on.

As for HK mentality, I think I've mentioned already, I am very fully aware of what's going on, and I've been very vocal and combative about it. Don't think I criticize China alone and only. I criticized the West, HK just as equally, and engaged in idiots and denials there as well. I bring their problems to them and take them on. I don't care who it is, as long as I make a valid point and have my facts. I just don't have to report to anyone here and tell them that's what I do, because it's my own thing. My intentions aren't for feeling good about myself; I simply believe in what's right and feel it's our power to make a voice about what's right and wrong. China has so much of its own problems, just as HK have its own. The issue is if people takes a problem and what they do with it. Do they do something positive about it? Or will they sit around and do nothing or ignore? My former boss said the Taiwanese government spent millions of dollars to teach the Taiwanese people how to line in queues. I respect that. Because of SARS, the HK government and the people took up hygiene much more serious than before. I feel proud telling people of this. The Germans took their responsibilities for WWII, and we respect them for it. The Japanese government denied responsibilities for WWII, and we're all really angry. We're all really angry at Aquino and his failed government for refusing to acknowledge responsibilities properly. A lot goes the same towards how the US government handled many things. Now etiquette, manners, rudeness, aren't new problems in China. I don't care what you say about tourists, or what a stupid TV show talks about. (And I mean really, come on you're going to quote a stupid TV show to reinforce your opinions Assassin? You can do way better than that man. Shows like those how often are they going to go out and say US rich people are the worst? And no offense but that guy sounds like an arrogant douche as well. A TV show where someone asks you and you go tell others rich people from a certain country is rude? That sounds so Donald Trump-style arrogance. ) It's quite an issue because if it's something that's happening a lot in HK and it's due to mainland tourism, then this says something about some of the tourists who visited the city. Also, it's important to move with time. Even IF some stereotypes were caused by non mainland Chinese previously, the question becomes if those groups still do those things or have they stopped. If they have stopped, then that's fine it's not their fault anymore. If they did, then they should stop too. It doesn't matter who, as long as you did it you should be accountable. That's why no one breathes down on Germany anymore.

And I mean, shouldn't you guys ask yourselves if you guys are being too defensive for China like always? Can you guys not accept there's something China does do wrong and stop denying about it? And stop turning it on others and say it's them throwing the spotlight? You know, the whole "world hates me" victim mentality is an adolescent thing which they use to defend themselves and their habits, and to reinforce what they do. If you don't do it, why do you need to defend such an action? If/When you guys come to me and say HK people are racist towards mainland China, I had no problem with saying yea I agree, but that's some people and what they do is wrong. I can say that because I know it's a fact, and I have no shame in admitting it. There's no shame in admitting your weakness; it's denial that's twice as despicable. And for the matter, I've met mostly nice mainland Chinese or almost none who are douche towards me. I even had friends from Chengdu to help support my arguments to tell others that Chinese people are nice too...however that doesn't mean problems could be swept under the rug. These are still things you guys should face and take a stand about.

- boy gets eyes gouged out
- cat's hind legs gets mutilated -- animal cruelty
- running people over and running them over again to kill so no need to pay for victim's health costs
- poisonous food...too many examples
- shitting in public areas of inappropriate places
- demanding others to speak mandarin to them and disrespecting other's culture and law
- throw wealth around
- claims the world to revolve around them because they have the money
- not lining up, rudeness, yelling at others when others correct them(sometimes HK people share this one too)
- exploiting HK's benefits and welfare (the ungrateful group):
- pregnant moms coming to HK to give birth so they can leech off HK's benefits while they continue to complain how HK government isn't doing more for them and continuing to whine about our city
- randomly calling people discriminate them when in fact they are the ones causing problems in the first place

and I'm not even talking about other societal issues such as prostitutions, scams, illegal organ harvesting, because it's not fair to bring those ones up.

There are many very other tragic events and I won't list them because some are individual cases and won't deserve to be mentioned and are tailored towards individuals. It's kind of like how there are plenty of exceptional cruelty events and those are just simply people and their psychological stress. (For example that guy who slashed and killed children..it's an apparent case of him having issues and are not something that could be said about Chinese people or a group of people in general. This is also why and how some cases are individual, and some are classified as phenomenal. Example again is, people with mental disorder is individual, but the accessibility to guns permits more violence is then what turns an individual case into an issue. This of course, is talking about the US)

I bring up a superficial TV show because that's what it seems to me what it's all about... the superficiality of trying create an identity separate from the Chinese as if people are going to recognize you as anything but Chinese. Do you admit that people from Hong Kong, Taiwan, and Singapore are the reason why the stereotype of bad behaving Chinese tourists exists? There never seems to be an admission to it. There's always a denial and the attempt to separate identity as if they didn't do it themselves. Did I ever say Mainland Chinese don't do it? No, I've always been arguing people from Hong Kong, Taiwan, or Singapore are no different and it's something as despicable as trying to abandon ship before the women and children. You may not see but it does look like Hong Kongers are sucking up to their British masters. About 20% of my relatives are Filipino and I know a lot of Filipinos. I liken what's being seen coming from places like Hong Kong trying to separate their identity as what I've been told is happening with Filipinos. There is a segment of Filipinos because of negative stereotypes or whatever that try to separate themselves and not identify themselves as Filipino out of shame. They either identify themselves as Hawaiian or Polynesian or even Latin or white. That's what I see what's happening with Chinese that don't want to be Chinese. The West is on a negative campaign against anything Chinese. Weaker minds probably can't handle the pressure and will try to desperately not identify themselves as Chinese. You call many of us pro-China deniers? Here in the US Chinese are either self-haters or apathetic. So people who are "pro-China" are a minority. So I don't really get where you have this idea that the majority of Chinese are in denial when most don't even give a crap. What do you want admitted? I wasn't born in China and I recognize everything you complain about but I also lump in all these Hong Kongers, Taiwanese, Singaporeans, etc... trying to separate their identity by pointing to mainland Chinese as different in the same selfish category. That's what these people don't realize is they're all the same. I shouldn't take what's said about Hong Kongers on a US TV show? Maybe Hong Kongers shouldn't believe they're going to be successful at another identity especially when they helped create the very negative stereotypes they're trying to run away from now. It's like the lucrative smuggling market of illegal animal parts. In the past a lot of those parts went to rich people in Hong Kong, Taiwan, and South Korea. But since it was called Chinese medicine the Mainland took the blame when most of it was shipped to places outside the Mainland. Who thinks China is perfect and nothing is wrong? No Chinese I know. It's no more defensive than never seeing someone from Hong Kong ever admit that Hong Kong tourists in the past are guilty of the bad behavior they complain about.

airsuperiority · Aug 31, 2013

Equation said:
Yep all written and covered by Western reporters...

All written by "Western reporters" eh? You have no idea you served yourself on a golden platter by saying words like these. If there's a bet placed on each of those 12 points I've mentioned as one pizza, that would be 12 pizzas you're buying for fellow members today. None of those 12 points came from the "Western media". They were all either accounts reported in HK papers, or individual accounts shared by others.
I think you should learn something, Equation. Don't speak words louder than what you're capable of. You not only make yourself look ridiculous, you're saying all things you have no chance of knowing or controlling.

Abuse from HK employers do happen, but is extremely rare, but of course, you're an "expert" on HK and pretty much any matters you have no problem of making a statement of, after all.
I've ignored pretty much the rest of what you've written because that's just more childish acts of name-calling and inaccurate statements.

airsuperiority · Aug 31, 2013

AssassinsMace said:
I bring up a superficial TV show because that's what it seems to me what it's all about... the superficiality of trying create an identity separate from the Chinese as if people are going to recognize you as anything but Chinese. Do you admit that people from Hong Kong, Taiwan, and Singapore are the reason why the stereotype of bad behaving Chinese tourists exists? There never seems to be an admission to it. There's always a denial and the attempt to separate identity as if they didn't do it themselves. Did I ever say Mainland Chinese don't do it? No, I've always been arguing people from Hong Kong, Taiwan, or Singapore are no different and it's something as despicable as trying to abandon ship before the women and children. You may not see but it does look like Hong Kongers are sucking up to their British masters. About 20% of my relatives are Filipino and I know a lot of Filipinos. I liken what's being seen coming from places like Hong Kong trying to separate their identity as what I've been told is happening with Filipinos. There is a segment of Filipinos because of negative stereotypes or whatever that try to separate themselves and not identify themselves as Filipino out of shame. They either identify themselves as Hawaiian or Polynesian or even Latin or white. That's what I see what's happening with Chinese that don't want to be Chinese. The West is on a negative campaign against anything Chinese. Weaker minds probably can't handle the pressure and will try to desperately not identify themselves as Chinese. You call many of us pro-China deniers? Here in the US Chinese are either self-haters or apathetic. So people who are "pro-China" are a minority. So I don't really get where you have this idea that the majority of Chinese are in denial when most don't even give a crap. What do you want admitted? I wasn't born in China and I recognize everything you complain about but I also lump in all these Hong Kongers, Taiwanese, Singaporeans, etc... trying to separate their identity by pointing to mainland Chinese as different in the same selfish category. That's what these people don't realize is they're all the same. I shouldn't take what's said about Hong Kongers on a US TV show? Maybe Hong Kongers shouldn't believe they're going to be successful at another identity especially when they helped create the very negative stereotypes they're trying to run away from now. It's like the lucrative smuggling market of illegal animal parts. In the past a lot of those parts went to rich people in Hong Kong, Taiwan, and South Korea. But since it was called Chinese medicine the Mainland took the blame when most of it was shipped to places outside the Mainland. Who thinks China is perfect and nothing is wrong? No Chinese I know. It's no more defensive than never seeing someone from Hong Kong ever admit that Hong Kong tourists in the past are guilty of the bad behavior they complain about.

I'm going to get back to you on this one because I needed to sleep, but I do need to point out, I think you're confusing identity. How North Americans see us is one thing. They see us all as Asians, and that we all look the same..but that doesn't mean we are. There's various types of Asians, as there are various types of Chinese. Sure, Shanghainese, Sichuanese are still Chinese, but they are their own distinct types, and they deserved to be distinguished as it's only respectful of their group identity and who they are. Same idea goes for HK, China, and Taiwan, and why HK won't want to be mistaken as Taiwanese etc. Sure you can say they are all still Chinese, but if you just see "Chinese and that's all it matters" then you sweep them all under one category and ignore the distinct groups and cultures within, then you're not respecting their uniqueness and I'm afraid that will just cause actually more intergroup conflicts than solve them. Groups wants to always be recognized as who they represent or how they want to be seen, even if they know they are still part of a bigger group. This respect of who they are is important to who they are, and it's something that deserves to be acknowledged. I know you're talking about assimilation in a sense because that's what US is about, but underneath assimilation there will always be divisions, subgroups, units, etc. This is actual social psychological stuff.

In a simpler example, yes your brother, you, your sister, are all from the same family. You all would consider yourself Changs, but if I come and say "Yea you're all Changs, so it doesn't matter which one is which" and just call you Chang from now on and the same about your siblings and don't even address you by your first name, then you will feel I'm extremely disrespectful. I don't mean to refer to your family personally as example, so I hope you don't mind, as I don't mean to be insulting or offensive. I do apologize in advance if you feel uncomfortable with this example, my apologies.

Why "the West" gets China wrong

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AssassinsMace

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