i disagree with your views but i admire your persistance. i can tell that i have engaged your attention and got you thinking into this issue which was my main objective anyways.....
but here's why you're wrong
That's pretty hypocritical since you're the one came out accusing me of being what's wrong with China just because I questioned your points. Where did I insult you first unless just questioning you is an insult.
what's this about insults? when did i say you insulted me？ i said you spent the majority of your argument attacking my credibility (pro-american, pro-western) instead of my argument, and the proof is in the pudding.
First post of mine that wasn't a reply directly to you but you seem to have a problem with.
LOL who else were you resplying to then? i'm sorry for being so presumptuous but from what you said about philosophers and your subsequent defence, i could only conclude that you were responding (directly or indirectly) to my post.
again, i never said anything about insults, i said your primary focus is on what my political agenda rather than my argument, eg- attacking my personal credibility, otherwise known as an ad hominem fallacy. however because you cannot show that i even display such a "pro-western" political stance yet continued to base your argument on that, you thereby commit the straw man fallacy.
What's in bold is you first attacking and insulting me directly. Did I question your literacy? If daring to question you at all and daring to challenge you is considered an insult, then you already insulted me long before at all the posts where you replied to me but I didn't respond. You have a weird sense of right and wrong because by your logic you have long been insulting me before I ever first replied to you.
nope, never said you insulted me. nice try straw manning me though. all i did was point out where you misconstrued my argument and kept labelling me as being pro-american on baseless grounds, which conveniently is evident in your own quotation of yourself.
also, please stop trying to distract from the original focus, this argument was not about who insulted whom or whatever. it is the certain fallacious attitude of some chinese people in reaction to media china-bashers that i was trying to pinpoint; i apologize if you feel what i said was too harsh, but based on the content of your "reasoning," my conclusions about how your attitude falls in line with the people liang opposed still stand.
Just because I questioned you, I'm all that's wrong with China. I was born in the US. My family has goes back in the US to the 1800s. So how can I be what's wrong with China? Because I'm daring to give my opinion that you don't like? I'm not conforming or conducting myself according to your wishes? That's what has always been wrong with China. China has always been like you want it to be. Passive and do nothing. Demanding conformity and the same conduct with all. Always worried about it's image.
the attitude you've shown by asserting that everything critical of china is pro-western, that everything has to be seen in a "china vs west/us vs them" mentality is exactly one of the biggest things wrong with china.
also, if i were so worried about "conforming," and "preserving china's image" i certainly wouldn't be sitting here arguing that chinese people shouls be self-critical, would i? your statement is oxymoronic.
I knew some Chinese whose parents who taught them to be non-violent. They would rather have their children be beaten up by bullies than to have them fight back and defend themselves. Why, because they were more concern about what it would look like to other Chinese that they're children were not passive as culture demands them. And the kicker was even though they obeyed their parents and didn't fight and still got beat up, the parents would blame their children for putting themselves in that situation. Much like how you think it's more the Chinese fault and blame themselves for whatever and not anyone else. You act like the Chinese don't do what you want them to do and that's why they're in the situation they're in for whatever complaints. I've got news for you... the Chinese are what you want them to be and what has it gotten them? I've asked it before and you seem to never answer it.
i never answered that part of your statements because i believe it to be unrelated directly to what we are discussing and hence non-sequitur, however if you press me for an answer i shall oblige.
some chinese people in the west like to keep to themselves so as to not 惹事生非, but this is entirely irrelevant to chinese people's political attitudes no matter how much you try and conflate the two. maybe you don't have this perspective, (being born in the u.s. and all) but there are many people in china who like to ignore all the bad things about china, whom when presented with criticism immediately resort to blaming the west or saying it's "foreign rumours." this is the view supported by the ccp for stability, and i am fully against such a complacent and irresponsible attitude. you seem to think of chinese people as being bullied, but why take the position of the weak? china today is not so weak, and these china-bashing pundits will not hurt china nor will they come to your house to beat you up.
if you keep envisioning yourself in the position of the weak you will always just feel sorry for yourself and things will never change. don't hide under your bed and shout insults. instead, realize what you can to to become stronger and change yourself for the better. understand that these pundits in fact are coming from the position of the weak, so don't even play into rheir b.s. realize that they are wrong, but don't take it personally and most of all don't let it warp your perspective because then you become just like them and their audience: impervious to reason.
I see self-criticism all the time. I never seen any Chinese that thinks everything is all right and don't want anything to change. You want a political show of admission. It's just like the communists and their need to get confessions. Yeah if you beat someone long enough, they'll confess to anything you want them to say. So what's the purpose of getting a confession? It's not the truth. It's for the public so they can say they were politically right. In this forum you see non-Chinese complaining about the same thing. That Chinese don't admit that there's anything wrong. No, it's just they just don't need to admit it to them because how does admitting it to them change things. It doesn't. What does such an admission do? Do the wrongs magically become righted? No. The non-Chinese just wants a confession that the Chinese have it wrong so they can go around saying they were right and therefore the Chinese have to obey them from now on because they were right.
lol no confessions necessary i'm not your padre. after all, the chinese people on this forum are not the ones perpetrating wrongs in china. (you better not be)
all i'm trying to do is to get people to realize that china-bashing pundits have the power to polarize not only the opinions of the audience they pander to, but also the ability to antagonize chinese people into seeing their own country in a less than partial way as a reactionary response.
i think it's important because the fundamental step to bettering oneself, one's country, anything, is truth. you can't right all the wrongs simply by admitting them, but how can anyone ever make a difference if they ignore the facts? besides, talking from a more impartial perspective allows for much more constructive and interesting discussions. everything else is pandering.
