why doesn't china have/get long range AAM?

T

Totoro

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IDonT said:
Passive detection only gets you the rough coordinates of teh AWACS. The SU 27 you sent to that location will be flying blind, if their radar is off. The AWACS can detect them as soon as they are in range and will vector fighters to ambush them. US datalink technology ensures that the super hornets, see exactly what the E-2 see's. The pilots on SU 27 will have no radar view unless they turn on their radar. Unfortunately, fighter radar does not have a 360 degree coverage. The are in a ripe position for an ambush.

Secondly, the USN commander can vector an Aegis ship, at 0 EMCOM, near the AWAC patrol area. As soon as teh SU-27 gets in range, the ship lits up its radar and the SAM trap is set.

USN fighters have buddy refueling system. Carriers normally carry 4 E-2's.
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But i said that su27 would of course have to get their radars on to have a chance of catching the E2. Awacs too would go active and try to follow the sukhois providing greater (and 360) detection. itd probably start lagging behind fairly early though. Still, when its too far behind the su27s, those could periodically point a plane on the sides, to check up some 180 deg in fron of them. Sure, that'd slow them down somewhat, but id still say they'd be fast enough to catch the E2. I don't really think sukhois could be ambushed that way. Also, the aegis ships are with the carrier, some 300 km away. im 99% USN wouldnt risk it by scattering their fleet. even at 30 knots they cant get in range in time to assist.

In my opinion, its quite doable, only question is whether the losses required for such a mission would outweigh the gain. Seeing how many E2s and how many carrier groups USN can rotate, and seeing how theres a quite limited number of sukhois, losing 2 or 3 or even more su27s for each superhornet might be way too high price to pay. The core idea behind this is overwhelming numbers and saturation of enemy defences in each attack.
 
MIGleader

MIGleader

Banned Idiot
in taiwan straight, even aegis would be at a serious disadvantage. the chinese can shoot artillery at it if nessacery.

i heard the chinese ar developing a new kind of anti awacs weapon with the russians. you could send in one or two diversion groups to draw away most of the escorts, then send in the kill group.
 
BKulan

BKulan

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i don't think an aegis warship will last for long. not with the whole chinese navy in close proximity and most of it probably running around in the strait itself. losses for the PLAN and PLAAF is probably also overestimated, besides it's just a waste sending a ship on a suicide mission like that.
 
T

Totoro

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Of course in practice it will never happen that USN, or taiwanese navy for that matter, goes into the strait, or even anywhere close to the chinese coast. Strait itself is a dangerous place to be, since its underwater ridges and geothermal wells help submarines hide.

USN vessels would be stationed either west of taiwan and south of china, or east of taiwan, probably at least 700km away from chinese shore. Perhaps more since superhornets have a combat range enough for 1000km.
 
I

IDonT

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Totoro said:
But i said that su27 would of course have to get their radars on to have a chance of catching the E2. Awacs too would go active and try to follow the sukhois providing greater (and 360) detection. itd probably start lagging behind fairly early though. Still, when its too far behind the su27s, those could periodically point a plane on the sides, to check up some 180 deg in fron of them. Sure, that'd slow them down somewhat, but id still say they'd be fast enough to catch the E2. I don't really think sukhois could be ambushed that way. Also, the aegis ships are with the carrier, some 300 km away. im 99% USN wouldnt risk it by scattering their fleet. even at 30 knots they cant get in range in time to assist.

In my opinion, its quite doable, only question is whether the losses required for such a mission would outweigh the gain. Seeing how many E2s and how many carrier groups USN can rotate, and seeing how theres a quite limited number of sukhois, losing 2 or 3 or even more su27s for each superhornet might be way too high price to pay. The core idea behind this is overwhelming numbers and saturation of enemy defences in each attack.
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The Aegis ship will already be on station near the patrol area of the E-3. The superhornets will charge in and delay the Su-27 fighters, firing AMRAAMs which will force the Su-27s to do violent manuevers to break the radar lock. This wastes time and gives the E-3 the opportunity to hide behind the "SAM wall" of the Aegis ship or go out of range.

USN tactics uses dispersal tactics. Because of Data links, each warship separated hundreds of miles away can see what the other sees. This is done to lower the odds of the entire fleet being detected. But when it comes to the protection of the Carrier, at least 1 Aegis cruiser is nearby.
 
MIGleader

MIGleader

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su-27 whoops super honet. the losses would not be so great for china if theri flankers were fighting super hornets.
 
tphuang

tphuang

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MIGleader said:
in taiwan straight, even aegis would be at a serious disadvantage. the chinese can shoot artillery at it if nessacery.

i heard the chinese ar developing a new kind of anti awacs weapon with the russians. you could send in one or two diversion groups to draw away most of the escorts, then send in the kill group.
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you mean the FT-2000? We don't know how well it works. China calls it the AWACS killer, but then again, it's trying to sell it Pakistan, lol.
 
tphuang

tphuang

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BKulan said:
i don't think an aegis warship will last for long. not with the whole chinese navy in close proximity and most of it probably running around in the strait itself. losses for the PLAN and PLAAF is probably also overestimated, besides it's just a waste sending a ship on a suicide mission like that.
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the problem is not on an aegis ship but a group of them.
 
tphuang

tphuang

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MIGleader said:
su-27 whoops super honet. the losses would not be so great for china if theri flankers were fighting super hornets.
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I think you are overestimating su-27. su-30mkk/mk2 vs FA-18, i would feel a little more comfortable. Still, I'd prefer sending J-10s against F/A-18.
 
MIGleader

MIGleader

Banned Idiot
A group of aegis would be threatening, altough it would still be pretty vulnerable if in the strait. i dont think US will run such a risk. they will be held at a distance, letting the carriers fight.
 
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