why doesn't china have/get long range AAM?

tphuang said:

I think you are overestimating su-27. su-30mkk/mk2 vs FA-18, i would feel a little more comfortable. Still, I'd prefer sending J-10s against F/A-18.

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See in this scenario, the mission of the SU-27 is to shoot down the E-2. The F-18's job is to stop them. All the F-18 has to do is get in range with AMRAAM, shoot, and run away. A couple of dozen AMRAAMs arriving at the SU-27 formation will delay it because it has to try to out manuever and spuff the missiles. This delay allows the E-2 to escape.

IDonT said:

The Aegis ship will already be on station near the patrol area of the E-3. The superhornets will charge in and delay the Su-27 fighters, firing AMRAAMs which will force the Su-27s to do violent manuevers to break the radar lock. This wastes time and gives the E-3 the opportunity to hide behind the "SAM wall" of the Aegis ship or go out of range.

USN tactics uses dispersal tactics. Because of Data links, each warship separated hundreds of miles away can see what the other sees. This is done to lower the odds of the entire fleet being detected. But when it comes to the protection of the Carrier, at least 1 Aegis cruiser is nearby.

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Hm, okay, if we do accept the fact that one aegis ship is always accompanying the E2 group, that complicates things for chinese. But at the same time, it offers them a chance to nibble at the carrier battlegroup one ship at a time. 3 cruisers and 2 destroyers that are, to my knowledge, usually forming a CBG, can make a very formidable aegis shield. One lone aegis ship would stand very little chance faced with a determined and overwhelming chinese attack. Actually, since the ship is so far away from the carrier, a naval attack would be possible. Again we're talking large enough numbers to suffocate ships defences, be that from the air or from the sea. Also, one lone aegis ship is hard to deal with a massive number of incoming missiles.

In the end, a well planned and coordinated attack surely gets both E2 an the aegis cruiser destroyed. Question is at what cost, how many chinese aircraft lost, how many chinese destroyers sunk? I'm saying too many to make it count, seeing how in the long term americans could bring fresh forces.

Shoot and run away? AIM-120's seeker isn't that powerful. If I understood it correctly, you can lobe the 120 or launch a preprogrammed search pattern using calculated probabilty density functions, but the missile itself doesn't go active until terminal stage.

tphuang said:

I think you are overestimating su-27. su-30mkk/mk2 vs FA-18, i would feel a little more comfortable. Still, I'd prefer sending J-10s against F/A-18.

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Su-27 has the same capabilities as su-30 in air to air!!!
its actually even faster.

Su-27SK is not integrated for R-77.

But it is integrated with R-27RE (AA-10C, if I'm not mistaking). Those have the range at least twice of AIM-120.

MIGleader said:

Su-27 has the same capabilities as su-30 in air to air!!!
its actually even faster.

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yeah, J-10 defeated both in air exercises.

It would be nice if it carries some long range AAM though. I'm guessing China probably has some project under way.

Why can't China use make everything sinmplier by buying MiG-31s and arm them with the meteor missiles and knock them out like a sniper does with people...

to both AWACS and other foreign fighters, something tells me that a Flanker will easily lose to a Foxhound if given the pilots and weapons

There has been no confirmation that china has R-27RE. Do show me a link to some reliable source for confirmation, i'm really interested to see it. Even if we assume that china has them in great numbers, it is still nothing close to a silver bullet. It's semi active for gods sake. You need to keep lighting up the targeted aircraft with your radar the whole time of the flight. That pretty much means very steady flight. Which in turn means the incoming amraams, however shorter range they might have (and current advertised max range is 75 km for newest version) could go without the midcourse trajectory update and still make a rather precise killing in the end. Yes, if you're suicidal you could probably kill an enemy fighter with a R27RE, but its very unlikely you'd survive it, too. Not to mention it's still probable amraam is more precise.

If my information is correct, no russian sold Su27SK can carry R77s, as stated, but some last 40 or so chinese built J-11 have been modified during production to carry R77s. Furthermore, a possibility of a comprehensive update of all the SKs and J-11s is being evaluated, with $5 million per plane, giving it newer avionics, ability to carry R77 plus a limitied selection of guided ground weapons. (didnt mention anything bout anti ship weapons though)

As for mig31s, that would be a great platform. Far from a sniper, as its radar would scream your position hundreds of kms away but still, it was built powerful enough to burn through some jamming. Thing is, in todays almost solely BVR fighting engagements, especially over sea where there's no way to hide from radar, having a really fast interceptor seems like a better idea than having a manouverable dogfighter. Sure, in theory one out of ten Su27s could somehow dodge the missile in the end, but i'd bet more than one out of 10 mig31s could get an additional kill due to greater speed and launching alt it gives to its missiles, not to mention greater situational awareness its radar can give it. (or space for newer updated radars, that mig31 nose space is huge, even compared to su27)

Concerning Meteors, i say forget it. It seems to be a great missile but there's no way europe will sell it. China is 'doomed' to indigenous and russian AAM weapons.

Damn it...

I wish China just stole a meteor missile, incorporate it with Russian and indigeous tech to improve the meteor, get 48-120 MiG-31 and China will be safe even from America... and India's Su-30MKI