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FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
First of all a thought for the 7 sailors ! God bless their

I think that was a real wartime situation, or even worse for the crew. It happened in the middle of the night, when the entire crew was relaxed during a slow, routine patrol mission. Then bang! There was no time to 'contain flooding' - all the could do was closing all of the watertight doors they could and later assessed the situation of what's going on with CO being put out of action due to injuries I suppose. Knowing that few of their fellow crewmates are probably gone I can only wonder what was happening in the heads of those who rushed there first. They did a lot of superb work that night.

I think that the crew did great in those 'extraordinary' situation that was as close to the real combat as possible. Watching Fitzgerald entering Yokosuka Naval Base sitting so deep into the water it looked like the old photos from WWII times.

Exact true control damages here an example especialy for counter flooding and pumping it is also a monster !
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Musashi was still afloat with a fairly deep bow with surely minimum 3000 t or more sure 5000 + tons of water inside

More the ship is big more he can absorb a large amount of water and will sink with more difficulty
for mass/size reason logic.
Military ships build to military standards are much more expensive but much more resistant to damages possible a civil of this size have sunk ?

Acual combattants use same damage control systems as WWII warships ?

Interior view mainly hull
ddg_51-detail.jpg
 
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SampanViking

The Capitalist
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
Ok you non-USN types stand aside.. let a sailor make an observation.

Equation the NAV officer aboard a USN ship is not required to be on the Navigational bridge at all times. He has qualified watch standers to serve that duty.

In reading different queries on different boards the main question is..how did this happen?

The same way auto accidents happen.

Ahhh.. I think the Civilian vessel was on auto pilot as they sometimes are. The USN ship always has watchstanders on the bridge and lookouts. Someone aboard one of those ships goofed. I think we will discover that warning signals were sounded and perhaps messages sent...One thing all must understand. You just can't turn a ship like and automobile. It takes a lot of space. Tons..even for an Arliegh Burke DDG.

I'm guessing Fitzgerald saw the merchant vessel. Warned them while turning away. But the merchant perhaps was on auto-pilot and smashed into Fitzgerald. I say that because the damage is on the port bow of MV ACX Crystal. I'm pretty sure MV ACX Crystal ran into Fitzgerald.

Remember...I'm guessing. and I did intend to keep this to myself.

Thanks BD, but I find the implications of what your saying quite shocking from the perspective of both ships.
Its one thing for a Merchant Vessel to surge blindly on, on Autopilot, in deep mid Ocean, but to do that in very busy Coastal Waters off Japan? That is just reckless IMHO.

Likewise on the Fitzgerald, I certainly understand that any big ship cannot turn on a sixpence (Dime if your American) but the fact that the fatalities were still in their bunks when killed, suggests that nobody had sounded General Quarters. Again, considering the busy nature of the Sea Lanes in that location, the circumstances around the collision are highly questionable.
 
this is interesting:
PARIS: Lockheed raises target for international sales
Lockheed Martin has made a habit of under-promising and over-delivering on growing the international business.

When chief executive Marillyn Hewson created the Lockheed Martin International unit four years ago, sales to countries outside the USA accounted for a mere 17% of the company's total revenues.

At that time, Hewson set a goal to increase the international contribution to Lockheed revenues to 20% within a "few" years. Two years later, international sales had risen to a 21% share of Lockheed revenues and Hewson raised the bar again to 25%. A year later, foreign sales totalled $12.7 billion, accounting for 27% of all Lockheed revenues.

As the company arrives at the Paris air show, Hewson has raised the bar yet again.

"It's going to grow to 30% of our revenue or more over the next few years," she says in an interview.

But the challenge of increasing international market share may not be so easy to achieve this time. From 2015 to 2017, Lockheed benefited from a rare confluence of budgetary and programme forces. US defence spending flattened or dipped, while deliveries of F-35s to international customers rose significantly.

From 2018-2020, US defence spending is expected to rise by 3-5%/year, Hewson says. As US defence spending rises, it will be harder for the share of international sales in Lockheed's revenue results to continue their upward climb, but Hewson remains optimistic.

"My goal is that they'll both grow," Hewson says.

Helping Hewson's causes will again be the F-35 programme. As more international partners follow-through on decade-long commitments, deliveries of F-35s to foreign customers will continue to grow as a share of the overall fleet – accounting for half of up to 130 deliveries in the pending 11th lot of low-rate initial production

As the largest defence programme in history, the F-35 may not need any lucky breaks, but it continues to receive them.

Last November, Canada's long-term commitment to the F-35 seemed in jeopardy, with the Trudeau government pledging to order an interim batch of 18 Boeing F/A-18E/Fs and reopen the CF-18 replacement tender to competitive bids.

Earlier this month, however, the Canadian foreign minister said the government would re-evaluate the Super Hornet purchase as a protest against Boeing's decision to file an anti-dumping complaint against the Montreal-built Bombardier CSeries.
source is FlightGlobal
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the link to its coverage of the Paris Air Show:
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bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Thanks BD, but I find the implications of what your saying quite shocking from the perspective of both ships.
Its one thing for a Merchant Vessel to surge blindly on, on Autopilot, in deep mid Ocean, but to do that in very busy Coastal Waters off Japan? That is just reckless IMHO.

Likewise on the Fitzgerald, I certainly understand that any big ship cannot turn on a sixpence (Dime if your American) but the fact that the fatalities were still in their bunks when killed, suggests that nobody had sounded General Quarters. Again, considering the busy nature of the Sea Lanes in that location, the circumstances around the collision are highly questionable.

Like I stated just conjecture on my part.

Those killed were more than likely officers that were trapped in their staterooms. I know aboard CVNs many officers GQ station is their stateroom...believe it or not. Now if GQ had been sounded the CO should have been on his way to the bridge. Perhaps he was. We do not know. We were not there. I'm sure the ship went to GQ at some point..

According to COM7THFLT the ship was in danger of sinking. Damage control efforts aboard Fitzgerald saved the ship.

I invite everyone to read this story from COM7thFLT about the collision.

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Thanks for coming today.

USS FITZGERALD experienced extensive damage and flooding after a collision with the Filipino container ship at 0220 local time, 17 June, approx. 56 nm off the coast of Honshu, Japan.

The damage included a significant impact under the ship's pilothouse on the starboard side and a large puncture below the ship's waterline, opening the hull to the sea.

The ship suffered severe damage rapidly flooding 3 large compartments that included 1 machinery room and 2 berthing areas for 116 crew. The Commanding Officer's cabin was also directly hit, trapping the CO inside.

The crew's response was swift and effective, and I want to point out - as we stand by the ship - how proud I am of them.

Heroic efforts prevented the flooding from catastrophically spreading which could have caused the ship to founder or sink. It could have been much worse.

The crew navigated the ship into one of the busiest ports in the world with a magnetic compass and backup navigation equipment. 1 of 2 shafts were locked.

Because of the tireless damage control efforts of a resolute and courageous team, the ship was able to make its way back to port safely on its own power last evening.

The FITZGERALD Crew responded professionally as all Sailors are expected to fight the damage sustained to their ship. They are known as the "Fighting FITZ" and the crew lived up to that name.

We owe it to our families and the Navy to understand what happened. Under my authority, I am initiating a JAGMAN investigation into this collision, and I will appoint a flag officer to lead that investigation. There will also be a Safety investigation.

The U.S. Coast Guard is to take the lead on the marine casualty investigation.

We recognize that there are other organizations who have equities in this incident, and we expect they will conduct their own separate investigations. More information on any further investigations will be forthcoming.

I will not speculate on how long these investigations will last.

As you are aware, we have found the remains of a number of our missing shipmates. Our deepest sympathies are with the families of these Sailors.

Out of concern for the families and the notification process, I will decline to state how many we have found at this time. We owe that to the families and friends of these shipmates and hope you can respect this process.

We will update you after all notifications have been made.

We have transferred remains to Naval Hospital Yokosuka. The families are being notified and will be provided the support they need at this difficult time. Please keep them in your thoughts are prayers.

Their loved ones are what makes this Navy great, so this loss is something we all do feel. The names of the deceased will be released soon.

Unfortunately we don't have the details regarding the conditions during their final moments, but hope that the investigation may shed some light on that matter.

At the same time, I want to express my most heartfelt appreciation to our Japanese allies for their swift support and assistance.

Japanese Coast Guard ships and helicopters were the first on scene and our first medevac, the ship's commanding officer, Cmdr. Bryce Benson, was accomplished thanks to a JMSDF helicopter.

A second medevac was performed for two Sailors with minor injuries. All three patients are alert and under observation at Naval Hospital Yokosuka.

We set up a USS Fitzgerald Emergency Family Assistance Center within hours, and disseminated the phone numbers to their hotlines through social media and Navy websites.

This support center remains open for chaplain and counselor care indefinitely, 24/7, on the Fleet and Family Support Center's 4th floor.

But to be clear: my sole focus now has shifted to helping the grieving family, crew and friends of the Fitzgerald.

The Navy family comes together during a tragedy, and I want to thank the entire Yokosuka community rallying their support in these difficult days. Fellow Sailors, family members, and civilian members of the Navy team were all out here last night to welcome FITZGERALD home and provide the crew and grieving families with food, blankets, clothes, and emotional support. MWR, Port Operations, NEX, USO, the Chief Petty Officer Mess, and many others pulled together to help out.

I ask all of you to keep the affected families in your thoughts and prayers, and respect their privacy as we work to get them the answers they deserve regarding their loved ones.
 
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