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Jeff Head

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Washington Free Beacon said:
A Chinese naval vessel tried to force a U.S. guided missile warship to stop in international waters recently, causing a tense military standoff in the latest case of Chinese maritime harassment, according to defense officials.

The guided missile cruiser USS Cowpens, which recently took part in disaster relief operations in the Philippines, was confronted by Chinese warships in the South China Sea near Beijing’s new aircraft carrier Liaoning, according to officials familiar with the incident.

“On December 5th, while lawfully operating in international waters in the South China Sea, USS Cowpens and a PLA Navy vessel had an encounter that required maneuvering to avoid a collision,” a Navy official said.

“This incident underscores the need to ensure the highest standards of professional seamanship, including communications between vessels, to mitigate the risk of an unintended incident or mishap.”

A State Department official said the U.S. government issued protests to China in both Washington and Beijing in both diplomatic and military channels.

The Cowpens was conducting surveillance of the Liaoning at the time. The carrier had recently sailed from the port of Qingdao on the northern Chinese coast into the South China Sea.

According to the officials, the run-in began after a Chinese navy vessel sent a hailing warning and ordered the Cowpens to stop. The cruiser continued on its course and refused the order because it was operating in international waters.

Then a Chinese tank landing ship sailed in front of the Cowpens and stopped, forcing the Cowpens to abruptly change course in what the officials said was a dangerous maneuver.

According to the officials, the Cowpens was conducting a routine operation done to exercise its freedom of navigation near the Chinese carrier when the incident occurred about a week ago.

Rick Fisher, a China military affairs expert, said it is likely that the Chinese deliberately staged the incident as part of a strategy of pressuring the United States.

“They can afford to lose an LST [landing ship] as they have about 27 of them, but they are also usually armed with one or more twin 37 millimeter cannons, which at close range could heavily damage a lightly armored U.S. Navy destroyer,” said Fisher, a senior fellow at the International Assessment and Strategy Center.

Most Chinese Navy large combat ships would be out-ranged by the 127-millimeter guns deployed on U.S. cruisers, except China’s Russian-made Sovremenny-class ships and Beijing’s new Type 052D destroyers that are armed with 130-millimeter guns.

The encounter appears to be part of a pattern of Chinese political signaling that it will not accept the presence of American military power in its East Asian theater of influence, Fisher said.
The press will make a big hoopla out of this, where, IMHO, none really exists. Rick Fischer, IMHO, is somewhat of the alarmist...but it sells his opinion for him.

This story is full of inaccuracies. For example, how does a Type 072 LST "stop" in front of an oncoming US Navy cruiser fast enough to make it avoid t?

Perhaps that vessel did sail in front of the path of the cruiser...but it certainly did not "stop."

My guess is that this is the type of cat and mouse game that will go on between nations. The US was apparently set on seeing how close in international waters she could sail to the Liaoning. The Chinese wanted them further off.

Using a guided-missile cruiser to do this seems like the US simply had nothing else in the vicinity at the time...or there was more than one US ship nearby. A sub would work for acoustics, or an LCS of FFG would be far better for electronics...and not as threatening and more maneuverable.

My guess is that when the Liaoning sailed down to Hainan Island, the Cowpens was in the area and ordered to shadow her. She got closer than the Chinese wanted and so they warned her off. For the LST to have had time to "get in her way," means that the cruiser kept on and that ship (which is slow and far less maneuverable than the Cowpens) had time to try and block her.

The press wants to make a big deal about the armament of the LST. Yes, they carry a couple of twin 37mm mounts that could do real damage to the Cowpens at close range. But the Cowpens carriers two 127mm naval guns, two 25mm autocannons, two 20mm Phalanx CIWS, and four to six 12.7mm guns, not to mention its eight Harpoon missiles. There was nothing close to a shooting incident.

So...yes, there was an incident, and we are probably going to see pictures and maybe a video of it at some point...but I do not think it was nearly as serious as this story and others are making it out to be.
 
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usaf0314

Junior Member
US warship conduct surveillance on Liaoning, confronted by PLAN

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I wonder what the US respond will be when a Chinese warship conduct reconnaissance 100 miles outside of San Diego at a USN carrier group
 

Blackstone

Brigadier
Re: US warship conduct surveillance on Liaoning, confronted by PLAN

The USN and PLAN are playing tag, just like what commonly occurred with the old Soviet Navy. Since reciprocation is fair play, we could expect PLAN to do the same by sending harassment ships near US and Japan task forces and CBGs. At some point, leaders on both sides will reign in the hawks a little and agree to some kind of conduct code.
 

jobjed

Captain
Re: US warship conduct surveillance on Liaoning, confronted by PLAN

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I wonder what the US respond will be when a Chinese warship conduct reconnaissance 100 miles outside of San Diego at a USN carrier group

Was the US destroyer posing navigational hazard to Liaoning and her entourage? If it was, then the Chinese response is both legal and justifiable. However, if the US destroyer was sufficiently far away from Liaoning and her entourage to not pose a navigational hazard, then the Chinese response is only justifiable, but not legal.

An LST is slower than the usual ~30 knot top speed of modern destroyers so I find it puzzling how an LST would be quick enough to 'cut off' a destroyer. Unless of course, that the US destroyer was approaching the vicinity of the LST of its own accord, which seems to be the case judging from the way the 'officials' said "[t]he Cowpens was conducting surveillance of the Liaoning at the time."

It's hilarious that they have the audacity to also claim that this was a "routine operation". My understanding of the word "routine" is that it denotes an act that is done repeatedly and between regular intervals. As far as I know, this is the first time the US has dispatched a surface vessel to conduct surveillance on Liaoning with multiple escorts, near Chinese waters no less. So unless the officials' definition of the word "routine" is that it means doing something for the FIRST time, then I seriously think they need to go back to redo the primary school English curriculum.
 

kyanges

Junior Member
Re: US warship conduct surveillance on Liaoning, confronted by PLAN

It's hilarious that they have the audacity to also claim that this was a "routine operation". My understanding of the word "routine" is that it denotes an act that is done repeatedly and between regular intervals. As far as I know, this is the first time the US has dispatched a surface vessel to conduct surveillance on Liaoning with multiple escorts, near Chinese waters no less. So unless the officials' definition of the word "routine" is that it means doing something for the FIRST time, then I seriously think they need to go back to redo the primary school English curriculum.

He could just mean it's routine to conduct surveillance, regardless of the target.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
It's hilarious that they have the audacity to also claim that this was a "routine operation".

All navies on this planet watch each other in one way or another. This whole scenario sounds like it could have taken place 50-30 years ago during the Cold War.

There's not a whole lot the US can gain about observing CV-16. Other than where it is, it's speed and maneuvering ablity.. After all the USN wrote "the book" on modern day CV OPS..
 

i.e.

Senior Member
Re: PLAN Aircraft Carrier programme..News & Views

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U.S., Chinese warships narrowly avoid collision in South China Sea

(Reuters) - A U.S. guided missile cruiser operating in international waters in the South China Sea was forced to take evasive action last week to avoid a collision with a Chinese navy ship maneuvering nearby, the U.S. Pacific Fleet said in a statement on Friday.

The incident on December 5 involving the USS Cowpens.

The Pacific Fleet statement did not offer details about what led to the near-collision. But it did say the incident underscored the need for the "highest standards of professional seamanship, including communications between vessels, to mitigate the risk of an unintended incident or mishap."

China deployed its only aircraft carrier, the Liaoning, to the South China Sea for maneuvers. Beijing claims most of the South China Sea and is involved in territorial disputes in the region with several of its neighbors.

(Reporting by David Alexander; Editing by Jim Loney)
 
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Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Given the PLAN only sent an LST as well, to "intercept" the Cowpens, I think it says a lot about the gravity (or rather the therelackof) of the situation.

Just as it was routine for the USS Cowpens to be in that area, it has more or less become normal for the PRC to send naval ships to observe -- and in some cases like this one -- head off the other ship.


Unfortunately, such confrontations will only increase in frequency in the future as the PRC's tolerance of close US military assets begins to dwindle, and this won't change until both sides reach some kind of more formal agreement.

Not surprisingly, the USN and PLAN probably get along best when they are far from Chinese waters.
 

Jeff Head

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568_hel-md-laser-truck-in-airborne-target-trials_content_Laser_Truck_Trials.jpg


Armed Forces News said:
The US Army has put new vehicle-mounted laser technology through its paces in first-time trials during which mortar rounds and UAVs were targeted and taken down.

The US Army HEL MD (High Energy Laser Mobile Demonstrator) trials were staged at New Mexico's White Sands Missile Range and lasted for six weeks. During this period, some 90 airborne targets were targeted in all.

Equipped with up to five lasers, the Boeing HEL MD is meant to protect remote military installations from rocket and artillery attacks, of the kind so often experienced by US warfighters deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan in recent times.

The lasers deployed had a 10 kW strength - 10 per cent of the firepower ultimately intended for the HEL MD. Without elaborating too much further, officials described the laser truck trials' results as a "significant success."

Boeing Directed Energy Systems' vice president Mike Rinn added: "The system is capable of rapidly acquiring with the radar these very small targets and point a laser beam about the size of a quarter and destroy the targets while they're flying".

Preliminary High Energy Laser Mobile Demonstrator tests at low and medium laser power settings were conducted in 2011. These most recent trials served to validate the system's high power capability.


A key HEL MD component is the BCS (Beam Control System), featuring a dome that can turn 360 degrees and employs mirrors to focus and direct its beams. The HEL MD's lasers fire at around 186,000 miles per second, engaging targets with complete exactitude. "These tests were the first in which HEL MD repeatedly destroyed consecutive rounds of mortars and aerial threats with speed-of-light precision and a high degree of accuracy", Boeing's Rinn concluded.

The vehicle element of the HEL MD is an eight-wheeled, 500 horsepower Oshkosh Heavy Expanded Mobility Tactical Truck (HEMTT) as deployed by US forces since the early 1980s. Nicknamed "Dragon Wagons", HEMTTs are mainly tasked with transport and logistics roles and can be carried inside and forward-deployed by the USAF's Boeing C-17 Globemaster III and Lockheed Martin C-130J airlifters.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Re: US warship conduct surveillance on Liaoning, confronted by PLAN

Was the US destroyer posing navigational hazard to Liaoning and her entourage? If it was, then the Chinese response is both legal and justifiable. However, if the US destroyer was sufficiently far away from Liaoning and her entourage to not pose a navigational hazard, then the Chinese response is only justifiable, but not legal.

An LST is slower than the usual ~30 knot top speed of modern destroyers so I find it puzzling how an LST would be quick enough to 'cut off' a destroyer. Unless of course, that the US destroyer was approaching the vicinity of the LST of its own accord, which seems to be the case judging from the way the 'officials' said "[t]he Cowpens was conducting surveillance of the Liaoning at the time."

It's hilarious that they have the audacity to also claim that this was a "routine operation". My understanding of the word "routine" is that it denotes an act that is done repeatedly and between regular intervals. As far as I know, this is the first time the US has dispatched a surface vessel to conduct surveillance on Liaoning with multiple escorts, near Chinese waters no less. So unless the officials' definition of the word "routine" is that it means doing something for the FIRST time, then I seriously think they need to go back to redo the primary school English curriculum.


Well, this reminds me of my Dads little game with his Zippo, which hand is it in, can you say Abracadabra boys and girls???
Heh! Heh! Heh, I'll betcha a dollar she had more company, now ya see it, now ya don't!
 
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