Another question is how much money is Congress willing to dump into this shithole? You are basically building an entire industry from scratch, from yards to skill workers.
US Military News, Reports, Data, etc.
- Thread starter tphuang
- Start date
I concur...except in Washington the second question is "Whose money?"
And then there the two gaps:
(1) Transitioning SHIPS results into addressing the USN's historical buy/operate/maintain warships problems.
(2) China's multi-decade lead in buying/operating/maintaining its PLAN/CCG/MM.
Taiwan is a province of the PRC and the SCS/ECS are Chinese lakes. End of story.
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I think in theory, a country with an economy the size of the United States should be able to afford the cost of building out a shipbuilding industry. China, Japan and South Korea all managed to do so with different sets of social, political and economic realities. I think more so than money, is the sustained political will along with industry friendly legislation that is important to help foster a domestic industry.
I admire your optimism but sadly it is unwarranted as a solution to the USN's problems. The history of USN buying/operating/maintaining its ships does not offer hope for its future.
Buying: LCS (Freedom and Independence), Zumwalt, FFG-62, ...
Operating: Fitzgerald, Porter, VLS TRAM, USNS Big Horn, ...
Maintaining: Bonhomme Richard, Boxer, INSURV classification, ...
The problems are manifold across government and industry but I will downselect to one word: Money. Too much to the few and too little to the many.
Theory =/= able to perform/do in practice.
And it's really not just political will only.
Allow an old man to tell you a story. It might even be true.
Decades ago the USN standardized its shipboard computers: Unisys-designed and -manufactured AN/UYK-20/-44 (16-bit) and AN/UYK-7/-43 (32-bit) computers whose programming language was COBOL-like CMS-2 with cross-compilers written by Unisys, one of which was hosted on DEC's VAX/VMS. The USN also funded Softech to write and certify a VAX/VMS-hosted Ada compiler and runtime (ALS/N) for the 32-bit computers.
The Aegis Combat System (ACS), designed and programmed in CMS-2 by RCA and CSC, used five interconnected 32-bit computers running the Aegis Tactical Executive System (ATES). The computers' limitations constrained the design such that incremental changes took years to code, LBTS validate, operationally validate, and release to the Fleet.
To increase productivity, RCA and DEC developed a CMS-2 language sensitive editor for VAX/VMS followed by a CMS-2 compiler and runtime that enabled lab testing prior to LBTS validation of the CMS-2 code. About the same time DEC developed an Ada compiler and runtime that was interoperable with its CMS-2 runtime.
Unisys developed a series of demonstration programs running on VAX/VMS where Ada code invoked and exchanged data with CMS-2 code and CMS-2 code invoked and exchanged data with Ada code. Government engineers developed a transition path, with cost and schedule estimates, for introducing RCA and CSC engineers to Ada (using the Intermetrics PDL processor), for introducing Ada incrementally and safely into the ACS, and for hosting an ACS-constrained subset of the ALS/N runtime on ATES.
The programs were live-demonstrated to the shipboard computer program manager, the ALS/N project manager, the shipboard computer policy manager and a Navy officer representing the Aegis program office. The fully successful demonstration was followed by presentation of the transition path.
The ALS/N project manager said ATES must be replaced by the ALS/N runtime.
The shipboard computer policy manager said the entire ALS/N runtime must be implemented for certification.
The shipboard computer program manager said ALS/N was the future.
The Aegis program office representative showed polite interest in the demonstration and the transition path.
The ALS/N project manager, shipboard computer policy manager and shipboard computer program manager left USN employment within the year. The Aegis program office representative moved on to her next assignment. The CMS-2 life cycle maintenance was essentially moved into the care of the Aegis program office. And ACS's increased capabilities (eg, BMD) were achieved with "adjunct processors" programmed in C for many more years.
Decades ago the USN standardized its shipboard computers: Unisys-designed and -manufactured AN/UYK-20/-44 (16-bit) and AN/UYK-7/-43 (32-bit) computers whose programming language was COBOL-like CMS-2 with cross-compilers written by Unisys, one of which was hosted on DEC's VAX/VMS. The USN also funded Softech to write and certify a VAX/VMS-hosted Ada compiler and runtime (ALS/N) for the 32-bit computers.
The Aegis Combat System (ACS), designed and programmed in CMS-2 by RCA and CSC, used five interconnected 32-bit computers running the Aegis Tactical Executive System (ATES). The computers' limitations constrained the design such that incremental changes took years to code, LBTS validate, operationally validate, and release to the Fleet.
To increase productivity, RCA and DEC developed a CMS-2 language sensitive editor for VAX/VMS followed by a CMS-2 compiler and runtime that enabled lab testing prior to LBTS validation of the CMS-2 code. About the same time DEC developed an Ada compiler and runtime that was interoperable with its CMS-2 runtime.
Unisys developed a series of demonstration programs running on VAX/VMS where Ada code invoked and exchanged data with CMS-2 code and CMS-2 code invoked and exchanged data with Ada code. Government engineers developed a transition path, with cost and schedule estimates, for introducing RCA and CSC engineers to Ada (using the Intermetrics PDL processor), for introducing Ada incrementally and safely into the ACS, and for hosting an ACS-constrained subset of the ALS/N runtime on ATES.
The programs were live-demonstrated to the shipboard computer program manager, the ALS/N project manager, the shipboard computer policy manager and a Navy officer representing the Aegis program office. The fully successful demonstration was followed by presentation of the transition path.
The ALS/N project manager said ATES must be replaced by the ALS/N runtime.
The shipboard computer policy manager said the entire ALS/N runtime must be implemented for certification.
The shipboard computer program manager said ALS/N was the future.
The Aegis program office representative showed polite interest in the demonstration and the transition path.
The ALS/N project manager, shipboard computer policy manager and shipboard computer program manager left USN employment within the year. The Aegis program office representative moved on to her next assignment. The CMS-2 life cycle maintenance was essentially moved into the care of the Aegis program office. And ACS's increased capabilities (eg, BMD) were achieved with "adjunct processors" programmed in C for many more years.
If the US government can’t even fix naval ship building/maintenance, one of the pillars of US Hegemony, I am highly doubtful the US government can build commercial ship building industry from the ground up.
Yeah, its going to be a long road. I do think it is possible for them to do this, but if it will actually happen is another question. I think the US has all of the ingredients necessary to have a successful industry. I would also point out that their shipbuilding industry has been neglected for decades, so at the very least this could signal a change in the right direction.