US Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
I have an unpleasant feeling that all sixth gens will end up looking like boring Doritos. Then again, function before form.

Engineering convergence in trying to improve stealthiness in one way by removing more control surfaces and compensating with more sophisticated thrust vectoring and flight controls. I think this is the main aspect of the shift towards flying wing 6th gens. At least the American program/s seem to indicate their desire to get more range and stealthiness via this approach. The real hardware separation between 5th gen and 6th gen would be the engine.
 

Tempest

New Member
Registered Member
Sorry, this isn't exactly related to your post, but it is something that has bothered me...

What I would like to know is what is the advantage of the Columbia over the Ohio? The Ohio's have 24 tubes versus the 16 in the Columbia. According to Wikipedia, the Ohio costs $3.06 billion in 2020 dollars versus $9.15 billion (FY 2021 and again from Wiki) for the Columbia. The Columbia has a larger displacement, but I am not sure why considering it carries less weapons,

What is going on here? Why would you design a successor that from what I can tell has less capability than the predecessor despite costing considerably more?
Ohio boats are very old, and routinely suffer component malfunctions. Aboard SSGN conversions, it is not uncommon for multiple tubes to be suffering from maintenance downtime at any given part of deployment.
 

Nobo

Junior Member
Registered Member
Red Force - Nacho Cheese
Blue Force - Cool Ranch
Well it seems they are having trouble recruiting for nacho & ranch teams

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The U.S. Army is struggling to find the recruits its needs to win the fight over the future

“In some of the survey data we see, we see parents worrying about, ‘if my child joins the military will they automatically have PTSD? Will they be sexually harassed, for example, will they think about committing suicide?’”

They are gonna send their "child" to bring freedom in other countries by killing other nation's people, and then worry about having PTSD?
 

Sinnavuuty

Senior Member
Registered Member
Ohio boats are very old, and routinely suffer component malfunctions. Aboard SSGN conversions, it is not uncommon for multiple tubes to be suffering from maintenance downtime at any given part of deployment.
Just to add to your comment, according to preliminary estimates, the flagship submarine in the series will cost the US safe a trifle of $14.5 billion, of which (as the US Navy website reports) $5 .1 billion will go to research and development alone.

It's a lot of money, but the concern to keep ahead in submarine systems makes Americans understand that the investment is worth it. The cost of building the first boat, therefore, is expected to be around US$ 8.8 billion.

According to reports, the total estimated cost to the US budget of the entire series of Columbia-class submarines will be about $97.0 billion. Of this total, US$12 billion will be allocated to research and development and US$85.1 billion directly to the purchase of all submarines in the series.

So, on average, each Columbia-class SSBN could cost $5.2 billion.

It is interesting to note that budget experts in the US are concerned that the US Navy has lately been underestimating the cost of new ships, after all, on average, they have been commissioned for about 27% more than the initial value. Now, experts fear that something similar could happen to the cost of the Columbia series project.

And, mind you, this circumstance, even with the Navy's stated intention for the economy, forces competent observers in the United States to be concerned about the impact of the Columbia-class SSBN program on the Navy's ability to purchase other types of vessels in the quantities required in the 2020s and early 2030s.

As we are now seeing, the US Navy is working within its 30-year shipbuilding program, which involves building another 32 ships, including 8 Virginia-class attack submarines, 8 destroyers, and another 16 large ships. Thus, the high cost of the next generation of strategic deterrence at sea requires extraordinary measures to secure its funding.

The fact is that the US Navy will have to work hard to achieve its planned goals.

To get a better sense of the undertaking so to speak, of the costs involved, it should be noted that the above mentioned costs do not include the cost of the submarine's missile system. It is anticipated that the upgraded Trident II D-5 ballistic missiles will be used until 2042. It is therefore anticipated that Columbia-class submarines will be equipped with these proven and technically advanced three-stage solid-propelled missiles equipped with detachable warheads.

It should be noted that since 2008, Trident missiles account for 32% of the nuclear warheads deployed in the United States. Thus, at present, the US naval strategic component is equal to one-third of the overall US strategic triad. When we consider the implementation of the Columbia program, we are talking about the modernization of the third of the United States' strategic military capabilities.

It is a serious matter, it has to be very well planned… at the risk if not implemented…

An interesting information about the Columbia class is that instead of the 24 missile silos that there are in Ohio, the Columbia class will be equipped with only 16 launch silos. But despite a significant quantitative reduction (a third reduction in missile armament), Colombia's (underwater) displacement will be greater (20,815 tons instead of Ohio's 18,750 tons). Consequently, it can be confidently stated that the Columbia will be better equipped with all sorts of new equipment, which is obviously not part of the Ohio portfolio.

Also, since the new treaties call for 4 of the silos to be sealed, then 16 silos is considered ideal. But in the more than 40 years that each submarine will remain in service, the first between 2030 and just over 2070, there will be a need for a new ballistic missile that could be slightly larger than the old but reliable “Trident II”… it will be built accordingly and cannot be a copy of current Ohio submarines.
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A new and bigger reactor will allow no “refueling” after about 20 years of service…so yes, that will be another advantage. The crew will be practically the same size as the current "Ohios", however, there will be an improvement in habitability, something that every navy in the world has been concerned about after all, a happy sailor is an efficient sailor. Quieter machinery is absolutely essential when it comes to a submarine, especially an “SSBN”.

There will be greater power generation equally essential for new electronic equipment/combat systems. Finally there will also be scope for capacity growth, it may not seem that important now, but if you're talking about submarines that will start operating in the 2030s and who knows what potential adversaries will have.

Is expensive? Yup. Absolutely, but it's not the end of the world for what's expected of them either, there's no magic and even the Russians and Chinese are feeling the growing sophistication needed for certain platforms in their pockets.
 

sheogorath

Major
Registered Member
Pretty sure the reduction in tubes is also related to the START treaties about reducing the amount of deployed warheads. Of course, the lack of warheads is compensated by the evolution of the delivery vehicles with penetration aids, bells and whistles
 
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