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TerraN_EmpirE

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
gelgoog said:
Yeah the XM8 was not accepted. H&K had to make it look like an M4 (the HK416 and M27) and then it got accepted.
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The XM8 and HK416 are not the same weapon. Development of the two was separate. The one aspect they share is the G36 gas system which is it’s self modified from the AR18 piston system. The HK416 isn’t a bad rifle either but it has the same issue as XM8 it doesn’t do anything that M4A1 doesn’t already.
Some SF units adopted it but primarily in the Shorter barrel lengths of 10.5 inches which makes sense has the internal piston system on the AR15 family is more sensitive to changes of barrel and gas system length. It really doesn’t like barrel length below 14.5 inches especially if you mount a Suppresser which is what those SF teams do.
The USMC opened the IAR under the stated aim of a light weight automatic rifle to replace selected M16A4 with a set of requirements. HK416 was modified to a degree to meet that and was selected.
The Marines then changed the goals and now it’s replacing the Infantry rifles across the board.

siegecrossbow said:
Going forward the marksmanship of individual soldiers may not matter as much as before. I feel that all the bells and whistles will eventually pave way for smart bullets.
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First this is a augmentation to marksmanship not a crutch. You might recall a few years ago when Tracking-point came out with its PGR system people were calling it the rifle that shoots for you. That’s not true as it is possible to miss with it. Just as it is with this system. You still need the fundamentals.
What it does is ease the ability to milk everything from the higher caliber. The biggest problem that Full power rifle caliber weapons like M14, FAL, G3, AR10, SCAR H have is that Iron sights give you maybe 400m effective range practical though is far shorter but the caliber is rated to 800m. Red dots are more for CQB, so fixed low power can reliably take you 500m a LPV can take you to that max but it’s a bit rough with need of follow on shots.
I think smart bullets are a very very specialized tech for a specialized role. That’s really for when you are shooting out past a mile.
Gloire_bb said:
Just ammo competing? Or soda can rifle is basically a lonestar weapon now?
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Soda can is Lone star. The True Velocity team started with Beretta assisting on design , General Dynamics land systems as rifle maker and True Velocity for the ammo. Beretta bailed early, GDLS bailed next. So it’s all on TV and it’s new subsidiary.
 
A

Abominable

Major
Registered Member
TerraN_EmpirE said:
The counter point you want to make is so far away from the one you tried for they might as well be on different planets.
First of that “Shit” as you put it. XM157 NGSW FC as the Army puts it and Vortex Optics 1-8×30 Active Reticle Fire Control as it’s maker puts it.
It’s a 1-8 power veritable optic that means that the soldier can use it as a Close quarters reflex or a long range scope.
it’s got a built in 1km laser range finder. So the soldier can now gage how far away his targets are accurately to a 1000m.
its got a weather sensor so he knows what the wind is doing what the atmospheric conditions are like between him
And the target.
It’s got a ballistic computer in it that combines all that. Which means that at 800m the soldier is going to be able to milk all the accuracy out of his weapon.
It’s a bigger deal than the Rifle or Ammunition as without it the soldier can’t take advantage of the 6.8x51mm’s potential.
So the guy with this will be highly likely able to get first shot hits on his targets in open terrain outside his adversaries effective range. It’s an unfair advantage. The contract is as the system has been in trials. So it’s highly unlikely to not perform as advertised.

How much would it weigh? Total package? The optic is supposed to come in at under 2 pounds. Without the computer and so on the Scope it’s based off is 10 ounces so figure 2 pounds sounds safe. Assuming Sig (probably the most likely winner at this point) Spear that’s about ~8.5~ pounds no ammo no suppressor. The can is maybe 12.7 ounces using a Sig model in 7.62 as basis of comparison so about .75 of a pound total package is probably 11-12 pounds. For the rifle. Some M4A1 kitted out come to that.
The optic though is also for the LMG so about 12 pound Sig LMG plus another pound for the can then the 2 pound optic 15 pounds empty which is about the same weight as an M249 empty.

No Nothing NOTHING like what happened with XM8.
XM8 failed due to a number of reasons, first the Army was running the program outside the normal program management system. PEO soldier weapons started it by breaking the XM29 OICW into two parts the XM25 CDTE and XM8 OICW increment 1. With the initial goal of trying to put them separately on a diet and then down the line getting the weight reduced versions back together. As it progressed some one decided to drop the eventual unification and push them totally as separate programs with the XM8 now as a M4 replacement.
Functionally XM8 wasn’t bad. It was a 5.56x45mm gas operated rifle derivative but not interchangeable with the HK G36. It was a modular rifle with 3 main configurations a 9 inch barreled PDW, 12.5 inch barreled carbine and an 18 inch barreled DMR/Automatic rifle. Where if differs from the G36 is a more streamlined mold, it had an adjustment LOP telescoping stock like M4 and PCAPS. PCAPS was a forerunner of Keymod and MLok a rail less return to zero mounting system. The PCAPS was used to mount a from the factory a zeroed Reflex optic either a Red dot with built in Lasers or a 3x fixed power optic with lasers.
It wasn’t perfect, some claim that the hand guard over heated and melted. The Magazine system was G36 based so the entire US Army would have had to toss the US GI magazine and all its pouches out. PCAPS wasn’t backwards comparable with any then in service accessories which by that point in 2006 was substantial. It was never and wouldn’t have ever been able to achieve its weight goal without changing the 5.56x45mm ammunition system in the US to a polymer case (which lead to the LSAT program after XM8).
XM8’s biggest political headache on the program was that HK hadn’t bid for XM8 it had bid for XM25 with ATK. So the Army was awarding a competition less program to a foreign maker without allowing US firms to bid. PEO soldier had a ton of crow to eat for that. Colt and FNH wouldn’t let that pass. Sig wasn’t the Giant it is today. When PEO soldier weapons was forced to start the system by asking the Ft Benning Infantry school what it needed the response wasn’t not a new rifle but a replacement for the M249.
Yet the Final Nail in XM8’s coffin was, It didn’t offer anything that M4A1 already did. As long as the Rifle was built to a 5.56x45mm NATO spec it’s limited to the performance envelop of that round. The cycle of integration of the XM8 would have cost a lot of monies and resources to offer at best identical performance with no major benefit pay back. If anything it in the long run would have been a step backwards as once the proliferation of night vision systems to the Taliban and other Nonstate actors. The hypothetical M8 rifle would have lacked the ability to counter by easy adoption of improved Night vision systems like the FWS-I.
The only aspect that was saved by the US Army from the XM8 OICW was the XM320 accessory Grenade launcher today the M320A1/A2. It’s failures pushed the US Army to the LSAT program and reduced weight ammo programs. Though they appear to have failed to degrees.
XM8 In some ways Inspired the Magpul Masada which became the Remington ACR. That would lead to the PMAGs and MLok.
It was a partial roadmap for the SCAR program which it competed in. HK used it to improve G36 and It’s part of why the HK416 was brought to market. Small numbers were sold to Malaysian Navy Special forces. It also in a way could be seen as the start of the trend that lead Sig to the MCX and in turn the SPEAR. The requirements from Ft Benning are part of the Draft for the NGSW AR.
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Interesting post.
 
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