US Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Re: US Show of Force

navyreco said:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Why so much hate for these two classes? Give them time, they will prove their worth

Click to expand...

IMHO, ultimately the mission modules, particularly the anti-surface one, are going to have to get much better than the "Griffin" missiles, which the artcile does not point out are only a stop gap.

IMHO, they should just go ahead and outfit these vessels with an MK VLS launch modulr forward of at least eight and maybe 16 cells, and that would be able to solve most of their problems, being able to add Tomohawks, VL ASROCS, VL Harpoons at some point, or ESSM or Standard missiles.

Then by varying the payload there, they will increase their capabilities across the board, except for the mine missions perhaps.

Re: US Show of Force

Jeff Head said:

IMHO, ultimately the mission modules, particularly the anti-surface one, are going to have to get much better than the "Griffin" missiles, which the artcile does not point out are only a stop gap.

IMHO, the should just goahead and outfit these vessels with an MK VLS lunch modelu forward of at leas eight and maybe 16 cells, and that would be able to solve most of their problems, being able to add Tomohawks, VL ASROCS, VL Harpoons at some point, or ESSM or Standard missiles.

Then by verying the payload there, they will increase their capabilities cross the board, except for the mine missions perhaps.

Click to expand...

Thing is, the cost for the ship as originally envisaged is already so great, I think they would balk at something as dramatic as adding a few Mk 41 VLS, which while it would dramatically increase the capability of the LCS, would likely require substantial redesign, and thus time and money as well.

I seriously wonder why the USN top brass wanted LCS with such great speed. They could've just settled for a more normal 30 knots and I believe it would've made the program less of a fiasco.

Re: US Show of Force

Hyperwarp said:

Hey popeye! How much did you bench?

Click to expand...

Don't know... Never lifted dead weight for fun..except bombs and missiles.

Re: US Show of Force

bd popeye said:

Don't know... Never lifted dead weight for fun..except bombs and missiles.

Click to expand...

That's easily 90 - 100 pounds already and that's just the smaller one. The other larger ones requires team work, but still each man put up at least 100 pounds of his share of muscle to get it onto the plane.

Re: US Show of Force

Jeff Head said:

IMHO, ultimately the mission modules, particularly the anti-surface one, are going to have to get much better than the "Griffin" missiles, which the artcile does not point out are only a stop gap

Click to expand...

Are you sure it is already stop gap?

Last month some Raytheon people told me the Griffin for the LCS will be longer, with extra range, compared to the ones deployed from the helicopters. They will not be launched from the RAM launcher from a dedicated launcher they are working on with the USN. They said they would give me more details at Euronaval (which starts a couple weeks from now).

Re: Aircraft Carriers II

Among the six recipients of medals awarded to French and U.S. soldiers at the French embassy the evening of October 4, two U.S. officers stood among those honored.

Lieutenant Commander Kyle Caldwell, U.S. Navy, was bestowed France’s Silver Medal of National Defense. Major Bowe Averill, U.S. Army, was given the Afghanistan Commemorative Medal.

Occurring during the French embassy’s annual joint forces conference, the event saw robust attendance from French military personnel from all branches, as well as U.S. officers and staff from the Joint Chiefs of Staff, U.S. Department of Defense, National Defense University and the Pentagon.

In an interview following the decoration, Lt. Cmdr. Caldwell described his work aboard France’s aircraft carrier, the Charles de Gaulle, with words of praise. "The young French sailors are very intelligent, and easy to teach," he said.

His time on the Charles de Gaulle included action during Operation Harmattan, France’s 13-day aerial campaign over Libya in March 2011. French Rafale and Mirage airplanes enforced a no-fly zone that proved a crucial element to defeating the military operations defending the regime of Colonel Muammar Gaddafi.

Lt. Cmdr. Caldwell’s three-year mission as a consultant providing guidance for the vessel’s catapults and arresting gear systems, was "difficult in the beginning." The officer had to learn French aboard, but enjoyed ultimately a positive experience. He expressed his hope to return to France in the future, as a liaison officer at the Maritime Prefecture, coordinating U.S. ship visits to France’s ports on the Mediterranean coast.

Click to expand...

Re: US Show of Force

Jeff Head said:

IMHO, ultimately the mission modules, particularly the anti-surface one, are going to have to get much better than the "Griffin" missiles, which the artcile does not point out are only a stop gap.

IMHO, the should just goahead and outfit these vessels with an MK VLS lunch modelu forward of at leas eight and maybe 16 cells, and that would be able to solve most of their problems, being able to add Tomohawks, VL ASROCS, VL Harpoons at some point, or ESSM or Standard missiles.

Then by verying the payload there, they will increase their capabilities cross the board, except for the mine missions perhaps.

Click to expand...

These ships are very differently designed than other naval ships. It reminds me of the first destroyers more than a century ago. These were build as single ships or in small series and generally proved to be much too weak, developing fatigue cracking in the deck &c. because they were extremely small and lightly built while having very large steam turbines and going at high speed. Only after fifteen or twenty years were the problems well enough understood and was it possible to build large numbers of these craft without wasting money. USN is in too much hurry to produce large numbers of these ships without adequate testing. There is no danger USN would suddenly be much smaller than some other navy in the world. My suspicion is that the producers threatened to leave the warship building business if they didn't get the contracts they wanted.

Re: US Show of Force

navyreco said:

Are you sure it is already stop gap?

Last month some Raytheon people told me the Griffin for the LCS will be longer, with extra range, compared to the ones deployed from the helicopters. They will not be launched from the RAM launcher from a dedicated launcher they are working on with the USN. They said they would give me more details at Euronaval (which starts a couple weeks from now).

Click to expand...

Well originally it certainly was. The Griffin missile for the LCS was not going to be carried by the helo...why us a Griffin when you can use a Penguibn or a Maverick?

The current Griffin is very short ranged and was not designed to be fired from the RAM. The anti-surface module was always designed to have a launching pack somewhere on the vessel. If they can come up with a Griffin II with a larger warhead and a range of 60 km or so, that might suffice, though the vessel would still be light in armament compared to other Navy's combatants.

Like I said, there are versions of these same hulls that kave the Mk VLS launch system built into them and that would be the ideal answer IMHO. Just make the Mk VLS luancher a standard part of the design like the 57mm gun and the RAM. But that's just my advise.

delft said:

My suspicion is that the producers threatened to leave the warship building business if they didn't get the contracts they wanted.

Click to expand...

Not a chance of that...particularly with this administration. No, they are designed (right now) the way the brass asked for them and both have the capability to do everything I indicated. Both companies have multi-role modules of the same ship available for the export market. The US ultimately, IMHO, just needs to switch to one of those versions.

Re: US Show of Force

I found this Times article to be an interesting read. Some pretty big accusations in there as well.

"Survivability testing has been cancelled, as it would cause too much damage to the test ship. Instead, the LCS is rated as not survivable in a 'hostile combat environment.' "

"Worse, the Navy has admitted that, unlike the foreign systems they were modeled on, LCS modules will not be swappable within day or two as originally envisaged. Instead, the process can take weeks."

However, I'm wondering how accurate is the article. I wasn't aware the Russians are selling a Steregushchy class corvette to China?

Re: US Show of Force

joshuatree said:

I found this Times article to be an interesting read. Some pretty big accusations in there as well.

"Survivability testing has been cancelled, as it would cause too much damage to the test ship. Instead, the LCS is rated as not survivable in a 'hostile combat environment.' "

"Worse, the Navy has admitted that, unlike the foreign systems they were modeled on, LCS modules will not be swappable within day or two as originally envisaged. Instead, the process can take weeks."

However, I'm wondering how accurate is the article. I wasn't aware the Russians are selling a Steregushchy class corvette to China?

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Click to expand...

People should expect a little bit of cost overruns on any project of that size. Materials for building these ships just cost more these days.