US F/A-XX and F-X & NGAD - 6th Gen Aircraft News Thread

[Wrought]

While I agree that there's too much low quality memeing around here, I also just came across this hilarious one.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1903296865661288900

However with regard to the actual aircraft, I am reserving judgement for now. Wouldn't be surprised if the final product does not bear much resemblance to these initial depictions.

 

[CasualObserver]

I kind of did expect the plane to have canards when I first heard they were about to close the deal... It's Boeing we're talking about. Almost all of their renders of 'what a 6th gen looks like' had canards...

For me, the main surprise was the dihedral wings and canards. I had just expected them to move ahead with a more traditional configuration, just like Shenyang did with the J-50.

 

[Gloire_bb]

However with regard to the actual aircraft, I am reserving judgement for now. Wouldn't be surprised if the final product does not bear much resemblance to these initial depictions.

It's official winning design. It is a depiction of production aircraft. Not demonstrator, not random art.

 

[vincent]

The F-22 officially entered the EMD phase in 1991, with the first EMD prototype publicly unveiled in 1997, and LRIP beginning in 2001. By the time LRIP began, Lockheed had built something like seven EMD prototypes, in addition to the two original YF-22 prototypes.

So unless multiple EMD prototypes rather than X-planes are already flying, it is highly unlikely that the F-47 will enter LRIP before Trump is due to leave office in January 2029, which appears to be what he is aspiring for.

Trump regime can always redefine the meaning of “LRIP”.

 

[plawolf]

They are very clearly trying to hide the full wing and rear aspect of the aircraft. They also appear to want to hide the canards in the second shot. I think it might point to something unique about the control surfaces which they do not want revealed yet. I suspect we will find out within a couple of years what the truth is.

Or it might just reveal it has way too fucking many control surfaces to be a 6th gen, with canards and traditional V-tails, that they are now trying to delete for the production version.

 

[zyklon]

Maneuverability will help such aircraft to operate at low altitudes; it will help it in both wvr(which it probably very much capable of reaching) and contested bvr.

Not sure if I'm reading you correctly, but are you saying or implying that the F-47 will be and/or is intended to be stealthy enough to "sneak up" on other sophisticated VLO platforms until the target is close enough to be struck by WVR missiles or even cannon fire?

3. Huge(relatively) cockpit and relatively weak, single wheel frontal chassis. Not necessarily, but this plane can in fact be very small, perhaps as small or even smaller than F-16.

A smaller platform would align with

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that the F-47 will be cheaper than the F-22.



Likewise, his talking points seem to support your speculation on the possibility of an unmanned variant as "loyal wingmen."

Trump regime can always redefine the meaning of “LRIP”.

Alternatively, our illustrious leader, the first of his name, President Donald John Trump will be elected to a third term once the United States Constitution is amended!

Though ideally, the United States Constitution will be amended to "elect" President Trump to the newly created office of President-for-Life!

 

[Gloire_bb]

Not sure if I'm reading you correctly, but are you saying or implying that the F-47 will be and/or is intended to be stealthy enough to "sneak up" on other sophisticated VLO platforms until the target is close enough to be struck by WVR missiles or even cannon fire?

I suspect it may be one of possibilities, yes. Boeing Bird of Pray was said to be almost ridiculously stealthy, many orders of magnitude below best 5th generation signatures.
If it can escape L band/vertical polarization detection, it may be quite capable (like, it potentially hard counters su-57, for instance).
It will most certainly be able to get into AIM-260 kill range against almost anything, and it quite likely can perform WVR/BVR BCMs to not be the first to go down.

I don't believe in guns at all, but advanced developments of APKWS may be there.

 

[obj 705A]

BTW the black shadow on top of the plane isn’t there to hide the vertical slabs. The reality might be worse — they are there to hide dorsal intakes…

why would that be worse? aren't dorsal intakes more stealthy?

 

[ACuriousPLAFan]

3. Huge(relatively) cockpit and relatively weak, single wheel frontal chassis. Not necessarily, but this plane can in fact be very small, perhaps as small or even smaller than F-16.

4. Fuselage shape smells drone variant(just "remove" cockpit in your imagination). Likely aimed at high incriment dedicated loyal wingman in the future, and almost certainly meant to operate with them normally. Not just "command" them, but be *part* of them. Which will also amplify stealth of manned component - not directly, but through similarity of "blinking" LO airframes.
I wonder how high are Boeing chances here, though, given that USAF is doing everything to prevent vendor lock.

While the F-47 being smaller than the F-22 is certainly probable - Color me very skeptical regarding the notion that the F-47 is smaller than the F-16.

As a matter of fact, the F-16 itself with only one high-thrust F110 engine is already pretty small in size (~63 m^2 in 2D projection). Trying to go smaller than even the F-16 - And I'm afraid that there's going to be more capabilities that will have to be sacrificed.

That's not yet including the fact that manned components of 6th-gen systems will need to be equipped with exceptional computing power to process all the battlespace information, meaning that a large onboard power-generation capability is desired. That would necessitate using high-thrust turbofan/adaptive cycle engine(s) that are way more powerful than what's on the F-16. I don't quite see how such an engine would be smaller/more compact than the F110, even if the F-47 can fly farther with F-16's fuel capacity.

That said, I believe that the F-47 should be roughly F-35-sized, which itself is pretty much the smallest in service 5th-gen in the world (~81 m^2) with one F119/F135-class engine.

8. Numbers are seen as important, and general vector of buying 1 7th gen aircraft by 2054 as wrong. Which is very refreshing.

That's why I'm rather concerned about the notions where there will only be low numbers of J-36 to be procured by the PLAAF, despite the J-36 absolutely being (somewhat or significantly) larger than the F-47.

In the world of 6th-gen systems, number is king.

 

[Gloire_bb]

why would that be worse? aren't dorsal intakes more stealthy?

Yes and no. Depends on vector towards incoming radiation.

That said, I believe that the F-47 should be roughly F-35-sized, which itself is pretty much the smallest in service 5th-gen in the world (~81 m^2) with one F119/F135-class engine.

Yes, that's reasonable. Maybe somewhat smaller volume-wise, significantly smaller frontal area vise, and bigger in horizontal footprint, but this is deep speculation.
Indeed, very likely it is in a similar weight class empty, but quite probably way lower in MTOW.

I currently expect it to be very "dense" aircraft, sacrificing bay depth, and achieving range through very high cruise(sub/supersonic) efficiency.