Ukrainian War Developments

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FairAndUnbiased

FairAndUnbiased

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j17wang said:
Give mexico the tools to determine its own soverienty, but ultimately the choice is in its own people alone.
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Mexico is too close. They can take care of it with their army.

But Venezuela? Now it's either their navy in the Arctic/Atlantic for RU, Pacific for NK/CN, or Carribean for VZ... but not all 3.

They said they were gonna turn VZ into the Latin American North Korea. OK, those terms are acceptable.
 
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Overbom

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gelgoog said:
I do not know how some people think Putin is running the whole show by himself. It is like the rest of the government or even Russian society in general does not exist. The fact is Putin is just an outlet for what their establishment wants. I think it was quite clear, at least to me, that this initiative was not Putin's in the first place, and there are strong tendencies in the security forces who want a more final stance and solution to the problem of NATO expansion in general. The Russians were never that fond of it even when Yeltsin was in power he regularly talked against NATO expansion. The Russians also sent peacekeepers to Yugoslavia even back then when their state was still pretty weak.

I see parallels between what is happening right now and what the Soviet Union did prior to WW2. Back then the Soviets wanted a security cordon around their inner core in European Russia. This meant pushing the border out into Finland and getting the Baltics under control. They first tried a negotiated solution but when this failed they started the Winter War.

I think the US and NATO should ignore Russia's demands at their own peril.
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Indeed, the security establishment in Russia has always been extremely hawkish and proactive. Whenever they find an opening they will push through with full force.

Unfortunately for Ukraine, I think that this time there is an opening for Russia to push and (maybe) get what it demands.

IMO this whole thing is more of a test of the US than Russia. Will the US resist the temptation of making the EU a warzone while China is rising..
 
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Laviduce

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gelgoog said:
I do not know how some people think Putin is running the whole show by himself. It is like the rest of the government or even Russian society in general does not exist. The fact is Putin is just an outlet for what their establishment wants. I think it was quite clear, at least to me, that this initiative was not Putin's in the first place, and there are strong tendencies in the security forces who want a more final stance and solution to the problem of NATO expansion in general. The Russians were never that fond of it even when Yeltsin was in power he regularly talked against NATO expansion. The Russians also sent peacekeepers to Yugoslavia even back then when their state was still pretty weak.

I see parallels between what is happening right now and what the Soviet Union did prior to WW2. Back then the Soviets wanted a security cordon around their inner core in European Russia. This meant pushing the border out into Finland and getting the Baltics under control. They first tried a negotiated solution but when this failed they started the Winter War.

I think the US and NATO should ignore Russia's demands at their own peril.
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People think Putin is running the show all by himself because of conditioning via US and US vassal state propaganda and misinformation that have been fed to the people in the West for the past 20 years. Human psychology also plays a role. It is far easier to focus on one person than dozens or even hundreds of people that actually run the show. This way the US neocon/neolib regime and certain US vassal states want to deligitimize the genuine rights and interests of the Russian people. To be frank, the US neocon/neolib regime cares about Russians as much as Nazi Germany did.

Putin is being attacked because he decided not to ignore Russia's sovereignty and national interests. Under him and the leadership of his cabinet(s) Russia was unwilling to become yet another US vassal state. It decided to pursue its own foreign policy. Of course, sovereignty to that extent was something that the US could never tolerate.

Also NATO = US, US = NATO. The US regime funds, commands and controls this belligerent military block. At no point in time was NATO an equal members club. The US uses this tool to maintain control over the foreign and security policy of its vassal states in Europe and to threaten and destroy any nation that threatens US global hegemony.

IMHO, given the criminal track record of its leader and some of its vassal state members over the past 20 years, it should be declared an illegal organization by the international community (the real one).

I think the problem the true free world (85+ % of humanity) is facing is that the US is run by a group of far-right fundamentalists/extremist ideologues that have started to believe their own fanatic lies and are making decisions based on their fanatic lies (in a vain attempt for continued global domination). Germany went down this path in the 1930s and we all know how that ended.

Moral of the story: Do not let imperialist far-right supremacist nutjobs run countries!
 
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Overbom

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FairAndUnbiased said:
opposite. in general they are very conservative and judicious in use of force. they will only strike when backed into a corner.
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Hawkish as for application of military power. Syria, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Ukraine (Crimea)

In all these situations Russia has succeeded on its strategic objectives. The basis of this is to find appropriate openings and as you said, if backed into a corner

The next opening is the expansion of NATO towards Ukraine. I think that Putin will also succeed here.

The only question is if the US really believes its own words when it says that "we need to compete with China". If they go full on aggressive against Russia on this, then that means that the US is unable to shake off its old habit of focusing on Russia.

IMO ultimately the US will back sown because the stakes are way too high to let China roam free in the Asia-Pacific
 
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Laviduce

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Overbom said:
Hawkish as for application of military power. Syria, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Ukraine (Crimea)

In all these situations Russia has succeeded on its strategic objectives. The basis of this is to find appropriate openings and as you said, if backed into a corner

The next opening is the expansion of NATO towards Ukraine. I think that Putin will also succeed here.

The only question is if the US really believes its own words when it says that "we need to compete with China". If they go full on aggressive against Russia on this, then that means that the US is unable to shake off its old habit of focusing on Russia.

IMO ultimately the US will back sown because the stakes are way too high to let China roam free in the Asia-Pacific
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Umm, just a few things:

Syria - The Syrian government requested the help of Russia to combat US and other foreign backed terrorists groups (including Al-Qaeda and ISIS)

Georgia - In 2008 , Georgia decided to attack South Ossetia, a disputed breakaway province that housed Russian troops on its territory. Valid argument against Russia: It seems that Russia might have started moving border fences in certain locations along the Georgian border.

Kazakhstan - Kazakhstan requested the help of the CSTO (that includes Russia) to put down a mild insurgency that was maybe foreign backed.

Ukraine(Crimea) - Funding an Anti-Russian coup in Ukraine at Russia's border was probably one of the most reckless and criminal things the US has ever done. Who can blame Russia for supporting Donetsk and Luhansk and reuniting peacefully with Crimea in response?

The Russians are no choir boys but they are certainly not any worse than the Neocon/Neolib controlled US in the past 20 years.
 
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