Ukrainian War Developments

Abominable · Apr 13, 2022

Deino said:
Are you truly suggesting Putin should send Ukrainian POWs into slave working camps and gulags like Stalin did??

Otherwise I'm again sure, we should better close this thread for good.

It wasn't just Stalin though, the UK and France did the same. Used captured Germans as workers even after the war ended.

I personally think it is a big mistake for Russia to be accepting so many POWs in Mariupol. They already had 3x more POWs than Ukraine had and the numbers will surge even more now. Many of the soldiers are seriously wounded and will place a burden on Russia's medical system. Soon Russia will be faced with the same problem PLA had against India in 1962.

Ukrainian soldiers violated the Geneva convention by hiding behind civilians. If they are taken POW without punishment, Ukraine will know they can do the exact same with every Russian speaking city and face no consequences. The numbers of dead civilians will be hundreds of thousands and east Ukraine will be devastated.

If they've ran out of ammo, gift them a magazine and send them back into their bunker. If they are low on water, don't worry. It'll be coming soon.

daifo · Apr 13, 2022

[delete]

Skye_ZTZ_113 · Apr 13, 2022

Abominable said:
It wasn't just Stalin though, the UK and France did the same. Used captured Germans as workers even after the war ended.

I personally think it is a big mistake for Russia to be accepting so many POWs in Mariupol. They already had 3x more POWs than Ukraine had and the numbers will surge even more now. Many of the soldiers are seriously wounded and will place a burden on Russia's medical system. Soon Russia will be faced with the same problem PLA had against India in 1962.

Ukrainian soldiers violated the Geneva convention by hiding behind civilians. If they are taken POW without punishment, Ukraine will know they can do the exact same with every Russian speaking city and face no consequences. The numbers of dead civilians will be hundreds of thousands and east Ukraine will be devastated.

If they've ran out of ammo, gift them a magazine and send them back into their bunker. If they are low on water, don't worry. It'll be coming soon.

I think this approach is losing sight of a very important fact - Russia wants the Ukrainians to surrender. Yes the Azov (and related groups) will fight to the death, but that's not really a problem to the Russians. Conditions on the ground for the UAF are only going to get worse and the situation more hopeless. However, many soldiers will fight desperately in a bad situation, if only to protect the wounded as they know them. The last thing any sane military force will want is to make every enemy force fight to the bitter end. Something the Germans in WWII figured out far far too late. Just because the propaganda says that you're a soulless monster, doesn't mean one should act out like the lies say. Remember, every determined enemy soldier is potentially a Russian soldier killed.

As what to do about the crime of hiding behind civilians, I don't know what would be a good approach. Lengthy imprisonment in Siberia seems to be the current narrative from what I've seen. Ukraine will no doubt continue to use human shields for the rest of the war. Russia needs to find her own solution, I don't envy their frontline commanders who have to answer why their boys and girls are getting chewed up in city fights.

I would suggest the Chinese Civil War as a better model to use. No one wants to be stuck on a losing side for long. At some point even the propaganda will no longer be able to 'fool everyone all the time'. The Russians really need to make the Donbass cauldron work, like Scott Ritter has been saying - a decisive strategic Russian military victory. It won't be majority Russian speaking cities at the frontline for long afterwards, it'll be Kiev or even Lviv who will have Russian military forces knocking on the door. I believe that the mass surrenders will come thick and fast before that point as ppl abandon the sinking ship.

Stealthflanker · Apr 13, 2022

I'm still curious on what are Russian forces doing in Belarus atm... are they regrouping and preparing for new North offensive or something else ?

Baranovichi airbase might still be full of Russian aircrafts.

GodRektsNoobs · Apr 13, 2022

Zichan said:
What exactly do you expect to happen to Western Europe?

At the moment, it is 3 times as productive per capita compared to China. It’s probably one of the last places in the World China should be devoting it’s limited resources on.

Productivity per capita is a ridiculous metric. Europe's "productivity" is based on selling products at completely absurd prices by using their past prestige. Just look at LV bags. How else are they worth 5x more than a Huawei flagship phone?

meckhardt98 · Apr 13, 2022

I stand corrected; Poland appears to be supplying Ukraine with up to a hundred T72M1/M1R alongside a plethora of weapons and armored vehicles.

First convoy was spotted this morning with tanks on tractor-trailer.

Abominable · Apr 13, 2022

Skye_ZTZ_113 said:
I think this approach is losing sight of a very important fact - Russia wants the Ukrainians to surrender. Yes the Azov (and related groups) will fight to the death, but that's not really a problem to the Russians. Conditions on the ground for the UAF are only going to get worse and the situation more hopeless. However, many soldiers will fight desperately in a bad situation, if only to protect the wounded as they know them. The last thing any sane military force will want is to make every enemy force fight to the bitter end. Something the Germans in WWII figured out far far too late. Just because the propaganda says that you're a soulless monster, doesn't mean one should act out like the lies say. Remember, every determined enemy soldier is potentially a Russian soldier killed.

As what to do about the crime of hiding behind civilians, I don't know what would be a good approach. Lengthy imprisonment in Siberia seems to be the current narrative from what I've seen. Ukraine will no doubt continue to use human shields for the rest of the war. Russia needs to find her own solution, I don't envy their frontline commanders who have to answer why their boys and girls are getting chewed up in city fights.

I would suggest the Chinese Civil War as a better model to use. No one wants to be stuck on a losing side for long. At some point even the propaganda will no longer be able to 'fool everyone all the time'. The Russians really need to make the Donbass cauldron work, like Scott Ritter has been saying - a decisive strategic Russian military victory. It won't be majority Russian speaking cities at the frontline for long afterwards, it'll be Kiev or even Lviv who will have Russian military forces knocking on the door. I believe that the mass surrenders will come thick and fast before that point as ppl abandon the sinking ship.

It's taken more than a month to take Mariupol. If it takes a similar amount of time to take each ethnic Russian city this war can go on for a long time.

Shipping off POWs to Siberia isn't a sufficient deterrent. That'll happen after the war is over. You need to do something now to make Ukrainian forces in places like Odessa think twice about using the Mariupol strategy. The fact that Russia are taking POWs at all before waiting for the Ukrainians to acknowledge and punish those who were responsible for Russian POW torture is a mistake in my opinion. I wonder how many more Russian soldiers will be executed or get castrated because of poor Kremlin decisions.

Corona · Apr 13, 2022

Brazilian President Bolsonaro said that his country remains neutral in the Russian-Ukrainian conflict, and due to this, it receives fertilizers from Russia, without which the country's agriculture would simply collapse.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514252525762883584

Fashion elements of Russian clothing have changed in just a month and a half.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514235736756613123

Chechen special forces are helping LPR units to liberate Popasnaya.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514201515270959104

plawolf · Apr 13, 2022

Abominable said:
It wasn't just Stalin though, the UK and France did the same. Used captured Germans as workers even after the war ended.

I personally think it is a big mistake for Russia to be accepting so many POWs in Mariupol. They already had 3x more POWs than Ukraine had and the numbers will surge even more now. Many of the soldiers are seriously wounded and will place a burden on Russia's medical system. Soon Russia will be faced with the same problem PLA had against India in 1962.

Ukrainian soldiers violated the Geneva convention by hiding behind civilians. If they are taken POW without punishment, Ukraine will know they can do the exact same with every Russian speaking city and face no consequences. The numbers of dead civilians will be hundreds of thousands and east Ukraine will be devastated.

If they've ran out of ammo, gift them a magazine and send them back into their bunker. If they are low on water, don't worry. It'll be coming soon.

As opposed to what? Commit similar war crimes as the Ukrainians and mistreat/murder POWs? That’s one hell of a way to motivate your enemies to fight to the death and kill many more of your soldiers and civilians in the process.

The Russians are doing the right thing, both morally and strategically, by treating POWs well.

FairAndUnbiased · Apr 13, 2022

plawolf said:
As opposed to what? Commit similar war crimes as the Ukrainians and mistreat/murder POWs? That’s one hell of a way to motivate your enemies to fight to the death and kill many more of your soldiers and civilians in the process.

The Russians are doing the right thing, both morally and strategically, by treating POWs well.

Note how at the start, many Russians opposed the war. Thousands protested in Moscow and St. Petersburg.

Then Ukr forces had the awesome idea of torturing POWs on video, threatening them with mutilation, and interestingly also offering money for surrender (right after the videos threatening them). They thought this would deter Russians. Wow.

Soon after the protests stopped and people started wearing Z t-shirts and stickers on their cars.

Ukrainian War Developments

Abominable

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daifo

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Skye_ZTZ_113

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Stealthflanker

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GodRektsNoobs

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meckhardt98

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