Ukrainian War Developments

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Coalescence

Coalescence

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Ace Maverick said:
After the war, which can only end now with Ukraine’s utter absorption into a Russian led union state, albeit with a fig leaf of independenc, Chinese investment and expertise will be needed for reconstruction, and here we will find the Western Europeans to also be of need of a Chinese style Marshall plan.
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I support the idea of a Chinese Marshall plan for both Western Europe and Ukraine when the opportunity arises. This would stabilize the region and give China more influence over them. We need to move away from a world of brinkmanship and exploitation, to one that benefits the development of all the countries in the world, and I think China has the power and resources to bring the world about. Even if the west would play the same game to fight for influence, it would benefit the country being showered with financial aid.
 
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enroger

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Coalescence said:
I support the idea of a Chinese Marshall plan for both Western Europe and Ukraine when the opportunity arises. This would stabilize the region and give China more influence over them. We need to move away from a world of brinkmanship and exploitation, to one that benefits the development of all the countries in the world, and I think China has the power and resources to bring the world about. Even if the west would play the same game to fight for influence, it would benefit the country being showered with financial aid.
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I share the same sentiment, however do expect the US attempt to destabilize regions China tries to stabilize, Pakistan for example just recently got couped. Americans are dead set to make global competition a zero-sum game, this attitude is not changing anytime soon
 
Coalescence

Coalescence

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enroger said:
I share the same sentiment, however do expect the US attempt to destabilize regions China tries to stabilize, Pakistan for example just recently got couped. Americans are dead set to make global competition a zero-sum game, this attitude is not changing anytime soon
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China should then learn how to thwart their efforts and get more the country's elites on their side. As they continue to grow stronger economically, It means they have more resources and finance to create and support more projects, and ways to gain influence over the elites.

As for Pakistan's case, recent news announced that the new prime minister vows to complete and support the CPEC project, so it doesn't seem like the US was able to completely able to thwart China's interest in the country or China's influence over Pakistan is even greater.

I don't think that type of behavior will set well with a lot of business elites in their allies and target countries, and may eventually lead to growing resentment and possibly shift in alliance if they continue like this, so short-term they are able to cajole their allies and coup countries to do what they want, but if they don't continue to invest or counter those negative influences, then eventually they'll lose them.
 
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Zichan

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Ace Maverick said:
Chinese investment and expertise will be needed for reconstruction, and here we will find the Western Europeans to also be of need of a Chinese style Marshall plan.
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What exactly do you expect to happen to Western Europe?

At the moment, it is 3 times as productive per capita compared to China. It’s probably one of the last places in the World China should be devoting it’s limited resources on.
 
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tank3487

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Coalescence said:
As for Pakistan's case, recent news announced that the new prime minister vows to complete and support the CPEC project, so it doesn't seem like the US was able to completely able to thwart China's interest in the country or China's influence over Pakistan is even greater.
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Words mean nothing, he say this only due to fear of protests, cause they need time to crack down on them. Thing is US had wrote letter than PM should be kicked from his post. PM got kicked from his post. It is what matter.

USA had complete control on elites of many countries due to complete control of money of those elites.
 
Coalescence

Coalescence

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tank3487 said:
Words mean nothing, he say this only due to fear of protests, cause they need time to crack down on them. Thing is US had wrote letter than PM should be kicked from his post. PM got kicked from his post. It is what matter.

USA had complete control on elites of many countries due to complete control of money of those elites.
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We'll just have to see what will happen with Pakistan-China ties down the line, there's a lot of nuances in what happened and the effects that can come out of it.
 
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enroger

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Coalescence said:
China should then learn how to thwart their efforts and get more the country's elites on their side. As they continue to grow stronger economically, It means they have more resources and finance to create and support more projects, and ways to gain influence over the elites.

As for Pakistan's case, recent news announced that the new prime minister vows to complete and support the CPEC project, so it doesn't seem like the US was able to completely able to thwart China's interest in the country or China's influence over Pakistan is even greater.

I don't think that type of behavior will set well with a lot of business elites in their allies and target countries, and may eventually lead to growing resentment and possibly shift in alliance if they continue like this, so short-term they are able to cajole their allies and coup countries to do what they want, but if they don't continue to invest or counter those negative influences, then eventually they'll lose them.
Click to expand...

As our friend said words means nothing. Pakistan will never be out right anti-China no matter what due to India, however any future cooperation between China and Pakistan will be under US scrutiny or even out right veto. Economically CPEC will be further delayed, Pakistan will borrow more and more from IMF firmly keeping the country in debt trap territory.

US does not need to make Pakistan anti-China, which is impossible, all US need is to keep Pakistan as a failed state and source of instability in the region.

As for China, yeah CPC will need to think hard about their non-intervention stance... Anyway we're quite OT
 
4Runner

4Runner

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The state of this thread in the last few days is echoing the state of the war on the ground. It is a protracted war of attrition. Therefore I propose a rights-to-post exchange scheme for this thread, similar to a carbon exchange. Each registered person gets N posts per month. If one wants more, he or she will need to buy from other members the right of posting beyond monthly quota. I think this scheme will enhance readability of this thread, while being democratic and capitalistic at the same time.
 
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