Ukrainian War Developments
- Thread starter james smith esq
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Waiting for the US transition to the independent states of Hispania, Obamastan and the Tent City Federation
"Putin Is the Only Leader They’ve Known. And They’re Done With Him.
Thousands of young, anti-war Russians are voting with their feet, fleeing to cities like Istanbul. Putin has labeled them a “fifth column.”"
--Uliana Pavlova (who's from Moscow)
"Misha quit his job on the day Russia invaded Ukraine, swiftly packed his bags and left Moscow without a clue when he will be back.
Only 24, for the last few weeks he has shared a $10-a-night bunk room with three other guys. He estimates his money will last about
a month."
"Misha told me that he had lost faith in his homeland. Only a toddler when Vladimir Putin became president, his entire life has been
lived in the Russia that Putin built during his 22 years in power."
"Tens of thousands have landed in Istanbul, because Russian flights can reach Turkey without crossing into European airspace
and Russians don’t need Turkish visas to visit."
"In a televised address, Putin condemned Russians with a Western mentality as “national traitors” who cannot live without
“oysters and gender freedom.”
I’m part of this generation, too. I’m a freelance journalist and landed in Istanbul when it became clear that my reporting could put
me at risk if I stayed in Russia. I didn’t expect I’d have so much company."
"When I ask them if they have encountered any instances of Russophobia while abroad Nastya has a sharp reply:
“Nowhere are Russians treated as badly as in Russia.”"
"At the concert, I also met people from Kazakhstan, Belarus, Ukraine and Russia. It felt as if the young people of the post-Soviet
countries came together to transcend the boundaries of Russian nationalism in a demonstration of the kind of brotherhood of
nations that once were espoused by the Soviet Union."
"When I ask them how they [two Ukrainian young women] feel about going to a concert surrounded by Russian expats
as Russian missiles are destroying Ukraine’s residential areas, they give a gracious answer.
“We don’t judge people by their passports. Like all Ukrainians, we don’t hate Russian people, because of their passports,
but we hate those Russian people who support the war or are indifferent to it,” Lera said."
"A common theme emerged in my conversations with the opposition-minded Russians who had fled to Istanbul:
Protests do not work. Putin’s police state is too powerful."
"Stranded in this country [Turkey] for 90 days, on a tiny balcony thousands of kilometers from our home countries which
are at war with each other, we realize we need each other. And we share a laugh."
All true.
Except that's no how Ukrainian voters perceives.
You and I and many here knows that Ukraine would be much better off being neutral and try to be an agent of joining Russia and EU together on trade and even fulfills the role as a key piece of the greater Eurasian integration of overland trade route, aka. the BRI. Sadly, Ukrainian voters and general population simple don't see things this way. They would rather sell themselves to get into the EU, the same EU that the UK voted to get out of. It makes no sense to you and I, but to them, that's what they believe.
This is how a society functions under a parliamentary system. Human nature are short sighted and they seek what they can see and desire.
One example is one of my uncle: being a Chinese, he has not once say to me in a discussion that he believes that Chinese government (CPC) should just liquify all their projects, and turns those investments into cash (in USD, most desirably) and give all those money to the Chinese people and work out a deal with the West and let Chinese people emigrate to the US, Australia, etc. He was pissed when he heard that the US somehow gives free money to American people (everyone, according to what he heard) during Covid, while Chinese government only gives some coupons to Chinese people only to promote consumer spending.
Anyone here could see how stupid and crazy he is, but to be honest, you won't believe how many voters in a small parliamentary country would be this short sighted and self-serving.
In my mind, I would certainly choose Russia if I am in Ukraine's shoes. This is because Russia is relatively low and cheap and have much more potentials for growth. And, Russia will always need trade and customers/suppliers. Joining Russia would make Ukraine the key between two major landmasses. Joining the EU will probably make Ukraine the fringe of EU block, because Russia is much less tolerant of this than EU is the other way around.
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I dont blame Talibans & ISIS either for their desire to get their hands on your people.
I always saw NATO as a debt trap to Eastern European countries. American and European equipment comes with a hefty price tag, so you spend whatever money you have on 20 APCs from one of US/Germany/UK and since you can’t afford anything else, now your Air Force has to be outsourced. Even Croatia tried to buy used Israeli F-16s to save money, but the US blocked it because it is American technology. It’s an ally to ally transaction!
The China/US J-8II Peace Pearl was stopped by Tiananmen, but a few months later GW Bush had later sent word that they were willing to continue the project. Ultimately it was cancelled when the cost estimates continued to rise. The LA times called it (paraphrasing from memory here) “Communist China’s rude awakening to American military contractors”.
To be fair, most countries are willing to trade their national defence for economic gain.
Yes, because I think GDP is inherently meaningless. The economic strength of the two should be compared on biophysical markers, such as energy consumption, military size, population, etc. It's obvious NATO as a whole has a huge advantage in virtually every area. But I doubt that a war between NATO and Russia wouldn't pull in other players. I would fully expect China to attack in East Asia and roll the board, in which case the Europeans would fight the Russians largely on their own. And I don't like the odds of the Europeans, largely because I'm not making the same inductive fallacy that a lot of people are making here. So because Russia did badly in Ukraine, it would do badly if it fought against NATO; truth is no one knows what that war would look like, nor when it would happen. If it happens 10 years from now, Russia's military will be much stronger than it is today.
Most eastern NATO countries got around that by not buying anything.
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