Ukrainian War Developments

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Lapin

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reservior dogs said:
For a small country like Ukraine, the primary concern should be, "who is our biggest security threat and how do we avoid it". Money is secondary if your country will not exist.
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"For a small country like Ukraine ..."

Ukraine's smaller than Russia, of course, but Ukraine's hardly a 'small country' by European or world standards.
Ukraine has the second largest land area and seventh largest population of all countries in Europe.

In order of population:
1) Russia 2) Germany 3) UK 4) France 5) Italy 6) Spain (slightly more than Ukraine) 7) Ukraine 8) Poland
 
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enroger

Junior Member
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Abominable said:
Two missiles missing yet hitting the same target? Don't buy it.

Loaded up with anti-personnel cluster munitions, hitting a city that a day ago had announced an evacuation via rail. The same region where everywhere else mayors are telling citizens to stay in place like in Kharkhiv, despite how close to the front line they are.

This was clearly a targeted attack to kill as many civilians as possible. The only question is who is responsible.


Joining the EU/NATO would probably make more economic sense than joining the Russian block in the short term at least.

As you say, it doesn't matter what we think, it's ultimately a choice for the Ukrainians to make. But that decision may have consequences (i.e. Russia invading) and they shouldn't expect anyone outside of the EU/NATO to care or help them if it happens.
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I don't think Russia would have a problem with Ukraine joining EU, Yanukovych was flirting with EU before the 2014 coup and Russian were fine with it. It makes a lot of sense for Ukraine to join EU and Russia knows it, further more acting as a bridge between Russia market and European market would make Ukraine very prosperous and also benefit Russia economy to a certain degree.

Joining NATO however is a whole n'other ball game....
 
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Abominable

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meckhardt98 said:
Russian Orion/Inokhodets UCAV downed by Ukrainian air-defenses; first operational loss of a MALE drone sustained by Russian Forces.
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Is that an Orion? The wing looks different, or is that the stabiliser fin? It does look expensive with that IR/optic gimbal.
EDIT: yep it's the stabiliser fin.
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507696063205056522

Over the past few days there have been a number of orion videos released. It looks like they are finally being deployed.
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512574973826646018
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512412737204326400
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512323097428381696
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511292208581853187

Better late than never.
 
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GodRektsNoobs

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Ukrainians executing Russian POWs outside of Kiev. The captives had their hands tied behind their backs and white cloth tied to their arms. Now we know who were the "civilians" killed in Bucha.

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Ukrainian T-64BV ambushing Russian convoy. Seems that Ukrainians can't aim for their lives and Russians couldn't even figure out where the fire is coming from even after multiple shells. What a mess.
 
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Bill Blazo

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Jingle Bells said:
How big is the Russian economy in total GDP, compare to EU/US. How big is Russian GDP per capita, compare to EU/US.
Now if Ukraine has to choose between joining Russia (and whatever Russia-led security alliance) and joining EU and (US-led) NATO, how do you convince the Ukrainians?
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I don't want to sound like a broken record, but GDP is not an accurate aggregate indicator of anything: not productivity (problem of aggregation, so potentially thousands of "real" GDP figures for the same country in the same year), not living standards (see problem one), not life expectancy (high heteroskedasticity, such that both Honduras and Nigeria have $2,500 GDP per capita but Nigeria's life expectancy is 55 while Honduras has 75). Better aggregate metrics for these things are primary energy consumption, exergy capacity, and other biophysical indicators that actually say something about the real domain of economic activity (financial aggregates are notoriously unreliable for exploring the real domain).
 
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tygyg1111

Captain
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meckhardt98 said:
The Ukrainian government has established a Russian partisan volunteer battalion known as the “Freedom of Russia” legion for its armed forces; similar to volunteer Chechen and Belarusian brigades established by the Ukrainian government.

It was allegedly established after a company’s worth of Russian soldiers had surrendered and later agreed to voluntarily fight for the Ukrainian cause.

The brigade has reportedly received over a hundred members; with their uniforms displaying a blue and white tri-band sleeve insignia which has been used in the Russian Federation as sign of opposition to the current war in the Ukraine.
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"free syria army" vibes
 
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Jingle Bells

Junior Member
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Bill Blazo said:
I don't want to sound like a broken record, but GDP is not an accurate aggregate indicator of anything: not productivity (problem of aggregation, so potentially thousands of "real" GDP figures for the same country in the same year), not living standards (see problem one), not life expectancy (high heteroskedasticity, such that both Honduras and Nigeria have $2,500 GDP per capita but Nigeria's life expectancy is 55 while Honduras has 75). Better aggregate metrics for these things are primary energy consumption, exergy capacity, and other biophysical indicators that actually say something about the real domain of economic activity (financial aggregates are notoriously unreliable for exploring the real domain).
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True.
But for my example, Do you think that GDP comparison between NATO/EU vs Russia/CSTO is meaningless in comparing the economic strength of the two?
 
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Richard Santos

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FriedButter said:
You know what Zelensky should have done on day 1 of the Russian Invasion. Invade Poland. No one says NATO had to be fighting on your side for Ukraine to survive.
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To be perfectly cynical, Putin should have tried to split NATO by arranging a modern day Ribbentrop-Molotov pact with poland and divided Ukraine between Russia and Poland, giving back to Poland the part of Ukraine that was poland to start with and some more border regions. Non negligible chance the craven polish administration would have taken it.

The way to tactically co-opting an inveterate enemy is by giving him a stake in your success, just like Hitler the arch-anticommunist co-opted stalin the communist by giving the Soviet Union a stake in Germany’s success in Poland.
 
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Atomicfrog

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GodRektsNoobs said:
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Ukrainian T-64BV ambushing Russian convoy. Seems that Ukrainians can't aim for their lives and Russians couldn't even figure out where the fire is coming from even after multiple shells. What a mess.
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That's why having a drone following your advance is so important... The T-64BV had a drone unit with him, probably helped him a lot.
 
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