Ukrainian War Developments

FairAndUnbiased said:

Based on the propaganda here, it is clear that the lesson being learned by the "patriot" demographic is not "war is hell".

The lesson being learned is "war is glorious even if it happens on your land! Who cares that your infrastructure is being wrecked and civilians are dying? as long as you are pro west US/NATO will punish your enemies, help you rebuild, let your people move to their countries as refugees, give you free weapons and aid! You can act with impunity!"

It's not about any specific weapon system, it's the overall message: "As long as west has your back, you can do anything free of consequences."

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Lapin said:

"The lesson being learned is "war is glorious even if it happens on your land!"

You act as though Ukraine asked Russia to invade it.
You act as though Ukrainian children asked to be killed by Russian bombing or shelling.
You act as though Ukrainian women and girls asked to be raped by Russian soldiers.

This war was Russia's choice, not Ukraine's.

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Lapin said:

A Russian intellectual friend was terrified of being conscripted into the Russian Army.
He said that one of his friends had been beaten to death during a brutal ritual of hazing.
He hoped to escape that fate by marrying a young woman with a foreign passport and leaving Russia.

How could money have motivated him to join the Russian Army?

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FairAndUnbiased said:

I never said Ukrainians were learning this lesson.

I said this is the lesson being learned by the "patriot demographic" and indirectly, the leadership. And in addition it is factually true that Ukrainians were shelling Donbass so if this war as an escalation of the 2014-2022 war then both sides have fault.

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Lapin said:

Perhaps unlike you, I don't blame Ukrainians for fighting back against Russia's invasion rather than instantly surrendering,
as Putin hoped and many writers here apparently have demanded.

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gelgoog said:

These people totally lack comprehension. They cannot understand that China is against conflicts which lead to the fragmentation of states on principle. China knows fragmentation leads to conflict and misery. But one thing is having principles, and another is being blinded by your principles to the degree you cannot see the obvious, i.e. that the US/NATO was encircling Russia and precipitated an arms race. That the US keeps subverting the political structures of Russia's neighbors using their financial and political power against existing treaties. More to the point. That the US subverts media globally including with their $500 million USD fund (the public one at least) just to fund anti-China propaganda. That the US funded separatist movements in Xinjiang and Hong Kong recently, and several decades back in Tibet as well. That they actively try to ignite an India-China conflict. I could go on.

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FairAndUnbiased said:

in 2014 the Donbass republics rose up against a coup. Since then they've been getting shelled constantly by Ukrainian forces. Why didn't Ukraine just let the Russian majority oblasts go their own way and instead shell them for 8 years?

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PhSt said:

Nobody believes the Lies regurgitated by the west anymore. Russia will continue its liberation of occupied Russian territories until the Ukro Nazi occupiers are kicked out from Russian territory that they have been illegally occupying since 1991. All sort of Atlanticist whining won't change Russia's momentum to victory. Russia will swallow up all of Europe and then proceed to liberate all of North America on behalf of the natives that have been subjected to brutal Genocide by the Anglo invaders.

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Lapin said:

You assume that most people in Donbas wanted to be ruled by Moscow rather than Kyiv.
That may be true, but was any plebiscite ever held to ascertain it?

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