Ukrainian War Developments

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MortyandRick

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Nobaru

Junior Member
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You parade your abysmal linguistic ignorance before other ignorant readers.

"If [Ukrainian] it's such a distinct language, which does it look and sound exactly like Russian? ...
It seems like Americans saying that American English is a distinct language from English."

Absurd. Evidently, you do not speak Russian or Ukrainian. I learned Russian, but not Ukrainian.
My Russian professor certainly knew that Ukrainian is a distinct language.

"Today, Russian and Ukrainian are close relations: they share more vocabulary, grammar, and features of pronunciation with
each other than they do with the other Slavonic languages. They both use the Cyrillic alphabet, but slightly different versions.
There are four letters in Ukrainian missing from Russian (ґ, є, і, ї), and four letters in Russian missing from Ukrainian (ё, ъ, ы, э).

As Russian and Ukrainian diverged from each other relatively recently (less than a millennium ago), they still share a lot of
basic and core vocabulary – but not enough to be considered dialects of a single language.

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is that Ukrainian and Russian share about 62% of their vocabulary. This is about the same amount
of shared vocabulary that English has with Dutch, according to the
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. If you expand your sample by scraping
internet data to compare a broader range of words than just those 200 ancient “core” words, the proportion of shared words
declines. One computational model suggests that Russian and Ukrainian share about
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.

Using that higher figure of 62%, though, a Russian with no knowledge of Ukrainian (or vice versa) would understand roughly
five in eight words. To understand this, have a friend cross out three out of every eight words in a newspaper and see how
much of the text you can follow.

“False friends” –- words that look the same but mean different things -– make Russian and Ukrainian look more similar than
they in fact are. The Ukrainian word pytannya (question) looks a lot like the Russian word pytanie (attempt). A Russian who
sees pytannya won’t associate it with the Russian word for question, vopros.
...
The similarities between the two shouldn’t blind us to their distinct existence as separate entities, nor to the political
implications of assuming they are one language.

About 25 years ago, the name Kiev started disappearing from
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, to be replaced by Kyiv. The latter is simply the Ukrainian
“version” of the name, spelt in the Latin alphabet instead of in Cyrillic. Two vowels in it have changed: in Russian, the first
vowel -y- became -i- after the consonant k-, and in Ukrainian historical -e- and -o- became -i- before a final consonant.
In historical terms, then, neither name is more “original” – each contains changes that crept in over time.
...
The differences between Russian and Ukrainian amount to much more than what Putin dismissed in 2021 as “
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”. By looking for “unity” in language between Russia and Ukraine, he was marshalling an argument that allowed
Russia the right to intervene in what he asserted to be Russian space."

Most writers here apparently have been cheering on Russia's invasion of Ukraine, so they may be motivated to deny,
however dishonestly, that Russian and Ukrainian are distinct, though related, languages.
When are you & your bandwagon leaving native america?
 

Abominable

Major
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As for Putin's delusions about Ukraine not being a real "state".. Congratulations, you played yourself. What better way to forge a state and a new national identity than a war of survival forcing people to band together.

Hopefully we won't have the displeasure of listening to that crap again. If Ukraine wasn't a united state before, it certainly is now.

Ukrainians said that back in 2014. But as soon as the war ended they went straight back to infighting and jailing each other.
"Agreed but I'd leave farms alone. It's the only thing Ukraine produces that has any value and Russia will need it to pay for things
after this war. Other than that, lots of bombs, bomb everything. West of Dnieper should just be farmland after the war."

Many Ukrainians would prefer 'scorched earth' rather than turn over their soil's bounty to their Russian conquerors.

Before Russia can impose another Morgenthau Plan on Ukraine, it has to conquer and occupy Ukraine.
But Russia lacks the military strength (at least with conventional weapons) to achieve that.

The Ukrainians will fight as hard as the Germans did.
Whatever they destroy, they will have to rebuild as POWs. Not sure how you would go about destroying a farm. Hopefully the war will be over before harvesting season.
 

gadgetcool5

Senior Member
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OK, this is just a wild guess, but looking at news articles and images on Twitter, it seems like what happened at Trostyanets, as well as other towns that the Ukrainians are successfully counter-attacking, is becoming clear. Basically, the Russians are falling victim to sudden and precise artillery bombardments that they are not expecting. At Mala Rohan, the Russian camp was shown on Western media after the attack. It was basically troops camping out on the grassland, they were not in bunkers at all. At Trostyanets, the Ukrainian 93rd mechanized brigade (a veteran brigade from Donbass, a documentary was made about them around 2016) was able to secretly move into position outside of town and its artillery opened up on the Russians, catching them by surprise.

The Russians also have large artillery, but their intelligence on Ukrainian positions is not as good. There are also signs that the vaunted 4th tank brigade was low on supplies, despite how close Trostyanets is to the border. Once the Ukrainian artillery takes out the Russian command centers and tanks, the Ukrainian armored units and infantry move in. Overall, a much better use of combined arms by the Ukrainians. But the decisive factor in this battle may be intelligence. The Ukrainians knew where the Russians were precisely, the Russians didn't know what the Ukrainians were up to.

According to the NYT, the Russians opened up a number of humanitarian corridors during their occupation of Trostyanets and it's possible their positions were known to civilians who were allowed to exit the city. Another possibility is that the Americans passed the precise coordinates of the Russian positions to the Ukrainians. Otoh, the Russian GLONASS satellite system did not pick up the Ukrainians. And nor did they have accurate air surveillance by plane or drone.
 

gadgetcool5

Senior Member
Registered Member
That's the reason.


GLONASS satellites are just for navigation. They cant be used for spotting enemy troops
Yeah. The next question is what land area Russian surveillance can accurately cover with the satellites/planes they have. They have no hope in a war where they are blind compared to their opponent. It's like, you have a gun, he has a gun, but you are blind whereas he can see. You can outnumber him 10-to-1 and your gun can be 10x more powerful, but you still lose.

If they can only accurately surveil 10 sq. km, they can only fight in 10 sq. km at a time. If they've realized this, it may be another factor in their withdrawals and narrowing the battlefield. Anyone would run away from that situation.
 

pmc

Major
Registered Member
As for Putin's delusions about Ukraine not being a real "state".. Congratulations, you played yourself. What better way to forge a state and a new national identity than a war of survival forcing people to band together.

Hopefully we won't have the displeasure of listening to that crap again. If Ukraine wasn't a united state before, it certainly is now.
Putin has history of playing around with Europeans quite often in his games Europeans end up at receiving end as he thinks ahead. now this Ukraine file is increasingly pushed towards Turkey and Middleast. i will not be surprized he mix together Paris climate accord with Ukraine.

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Weaasel

Senior Member
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OK, this is just a wild guess, but looking at news articles and images on Twitter, it seems like what happened at Trostyanets, as well as other towns that the Ukrainians are successfully counter-attacking, is becoming clear. Basically, the Russians are falling victim to sudden and precise artillery bombardments that they are not expecting. At Mala Rohan, the Russian camp was shown on Western media after the attack. It was basically troops camping out on the grassland, they were not in bunkers at all. At Trostyanets, the Ukrainian 93rd mechanized brigade (a veteran brigade from Donbass, a documentary was made about them around 2016) was able to secretly move into position outside of town and its artillery opened up on the Russians, catching them by surprise.

The Russians also have large artillery, but their intelligence on Ukrainian positions is not as good. There are also signs that the vaunted 4th tank brigade was low on supplies, despite how close Trostyanets is to the border. Once the Ukrainian artillery takes out the Russian command centers and tanks, the Ukrainian armored units and infantry move in. Overall, a much better use of combined arms by the Ukrainians. But the decisive factor in this battle may be intelligence. The Ukrainians knew where the Russians were precisely, the Russians didn't know what the Ukrainians were up to.

According to the NYT, the Russians opened up a number of humanitarian corridors during their occupation of Trostyanets and it's possible their positions were known to civilians who were allowed to exit the city. Another possibility is that the Americans passed the precise coordinates of the Russian positions to the Ukrainians. Otoh, the Russian GLONASS satellite system did not pick up the Ukrainians. And nor did they have accurate air surveillance by plane or drone.
The Russians do not have close air support?
 

gadgetcool5

Senior Member
Registered Member
The Russians do not have close air support?
My guess is that it's been rendered useless by Ukrainian anti-aircraft defenses, which are undoubtedly arriving from the West in spades. I've noticed the Russian losses of tanks and troops have dropped since the first week of the invasion when they were going Leroy Jenkins, but their aircraft losses are pretty steady.
 
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