Ukrainian War Developments

Phead128 said:

China pledges support for Russian demand for an ironclad Western guarantee of no NATO troops in Ukraine.

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Yes, good clarification. China supports what you said above. However that rests on the West/US accepting that. In case they push too far, then China will support Russia (behind the scenes most probably)

The foundation of China-Russia relations is respect for each other's core interests

For China, its Taiwan
For Russia, its Ukraine

Overbom said:

Regarding the US, its playing a winning hand here. Whatever it happens it will gain something. Even if a war happens between Ukraine-Russia, it will be at EU's doorstep, with millions of refugees and trade disruption which would hit many EU's countries economies (another bonus for the US)

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Yugoslavia and Kosovo 2.0.

Phead128 said:

China pledges support for Russian demand for an ironclad Western guarantee of no NATO troops in Ukraine. (Akin to Chinese policies in North Korea, treating Ukraine as a buffer zone). China has not pledged support for Crimean annexation or it's other questionable tactics in Donbass region. This is the right move from China.

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China did not make any specifics about Ukraine, Donbass and Crimean, did it? China said "firmly support Russia's core interest". So if Russia tells the west that "annexing" Crimea and controlling Donbass are part of its core interest, then China does pledge to support it, don't you think? Essentially both sides have given each other a blank cheque, it is more than what US has given to its allies.

I fail to see how you could taking out these specifics when China absolutely did not make.

taxiya said:

China did not make any specifics about Ukraine, Donbass and Crimean, did it? China said "firmly support Russia's core interest". So if Russia tells the west that "annexing" Crimea and controlling Donbass are part of its core interest, then China does pledge to support it, don't you think? Essentially both sides have given each other a blank cheque, it is more than what US has given to its allies.

I fail to see how you could taking out these specifics when China absolutely did not make.

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In international diplomacy, word choices matter, not mental gymnastics to backwards justify your forgone conclusion.

"China firmly supports Russian national security interests or core interests" is a very different from saying "China formally recognized Crimean annexation and sovereignty belongs to Russia only."

This is basic diplomacy 101, China is speaking about broader NATO buildup threatening Russian sphere of influence, not about sovereignty of Crimea.

It's similar to concept of 'strategic ambiguity'. US uses this often over Taiwanese sovereignty, ambiguous and vague to not risk offending both sides while doing business as usual. China is intentionally 'strategically ambiguous' over Crimean sovereignty.

Phead128 said:

In international diplomacy, word choices matter, not mental gymnastics to backwards justify your forgone conclusion.

"China firmly supports Russian national security interests or core interests" is a very different from saying "China formally recognized Crimean annexation and sovereignty belongs to Russia only."

This is basic diplomacy 101, China is speaking about broader NATO buildup threatening Russian sphere of influence, not about sovereignty of Crimea.

It's similar to concept of 'strategic ambiguity'. US uses this often over Taiwanese sovereignty, ambiguous and vague to not risk offending both sides while doing business as usual. China is intentionally 'strategically ambiguous' over Crimean sovereignty.

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Of course word choice matter.

"China firmly supports Russian national security interests or core interests" is very different from saying "China has any opinion on Crimea" at least, let alone "China object". Isn't it? The bottom line is, China did not say anything about what that core interest is and left that for the west to guess.

Talking about mental gymnastics, did you just put your words in Xi's mouth?

taxiya said:

Of course word choice matter.

"China firmly supports Russian national security interests or core interests"
.....
Talking about mental gymnastics, did you just put your words in Xi's mouth?

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And did you put words in Xi's mouth?

taxiya said:

China said "firmly support Russia's core interest".

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You are guilty of whatever you accuse others of doing. This is projection of guilt upon others.

Phead128 said:

And did you out words in Xi's mouth?



FFS, you are guilty of whatever you accuse others of doing.

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What do you mean by "And did you out words in Xi's mouth?" Have you read the full text from CCTV about the conference? I can't help if you can not or will not read Chinese.

"China firmly supports Russian national security interests or core interests" is directly copied from YOUR post.
"firmly support Russia's core interest" is what the official report said.

If there is somebody doing mental gymnastic, it is you.

For what ever sake, I don't care whatever you think of guilty.

P.S. your hand was shaking when you typed "out" instead of "put". Control your temper, it is not good for your health.

taxiya said:

What do you mean by "And did you out words in Xi's mouth?" Have you read the full text from CCTV about the conference?

For what ever sake, I don't care whatever you think of guilty.

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Who cares if Foreign Ministry, CCTV, or Xi said it.

The point is China has an intentional strategic ambiguous position on Crimean sovereignty, and China explicitly recognized and support Russian demands for no NATO troops in Ukraine. You can't lump Crimea sovereignty together with sphere of influence under the umbrella of "core interests" using some mental gymnastics. Chinese diplomats have a strong tradition of being extremely careful with word choices. It's not up to your wild imagination of thinking what "core interests" means. It is clear it includes sphere of influence/border security but doesn't necessarily mean sovereignty of Crimea.

Phead128 said:

Who cares if Foreign Ministry, CCTV, or Xi said it.

The point is China has an intentional strategic ambiguous position on Crimean sovereignty, and China explicitly recognized and support Russian demands for no NATO troops in Ukraine. You can't lump Crimea sovereignty together with sphere of influence under the umbrella of "core interests" using some mental gymnastics. Chinese diplomats have a strong tradition of being extremely careful with word choices. It's not up to your wild imagination of thinking what "core interests" means. It is clear it includes sphere of influence/border security but doesn't necessarily mean sovereignty of Crimea.

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Aren't we talking about who is twisting what Xi said?

Phead128 said:

In international diplomacy, word choices matter, not mental gymnastics to backwards justify your forgone conclusion.

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A moment ago you care, now you suddenly don't care? Make up your mind, will you?

If you don't care, then who give a fart of what you say or think?