Strange mix-up of civilians and military trucks. A logistic headache for field repairs...
Ukrainian War Developments
- Thread starter james smith esq
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Don't be so disingenuous. Don't pretend that there are not many writers who advocate--sometimes with apparent glee--that
the Russians act more ruthlessly in order to crush Ukrainian resistance. That advocacy shows an indifference to civilian casualties.
You--if you have any flicker of honesty--can identify these writers yourself.
Let's suppose that there's a confirmed nest of neo-Nazis in a Ukrainian city.
What would the Russians be justified in doing? Destroying the entire city? Destroying the entire neighborhood?
No you don't. Stop with the crocodile tears. Assuming you are German you were happy being on the side of "might is right" when it came to NATO/American involvement in Afghanistan, Iraq and Kosovo. Where was the German movement to withdraw from NATO and sanction America then?
If you personally were against them then you were in a minority in your country. Your leaders were complicit and your people happy to look away.
I suspect the reason many people in your position are turning pacifist is because the bombs are getting closer.
I don't see anyone here advocating killing Ukrainians on account of them being Ukrainian. I personally don't think Russians should be killing the Nazis where possible either. Better to capture them alive and sentence them publically for their crimes so the world can see what they have been doing. Down to a man I bet they will say the same thing many of your countrymen said 70 years ago. "I didn't know what was going on", "I was forced", etc.
1. Evacuate civilians.
2. Give the Nazis a chance to surrender.
3. Destroy the city block by block, trying to minimise civilian casualties as much as possible.
This doesn't need to be hypothetical, it's exactly what happened in Mariupol. The Nazis stopped many civilians from escaping, shooting many of them dead. They refused two offers of surrender, including one where they could leave to another Ukrainian city. The only reason the city was assaulted was because of reports of civilians being executed by Nazis.
What do you suggest they do?
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"Putin’s bombs and missiles rain down, but he will never destroy Ukraine’s culture.
As part of Russia’s ‘total war’, theatres are bombed and intellectuals are murdered. But we will fight for our heritage."
--Andrey Kurkov
"The total war that Putin has declared on implies that the aim is to make sure that Ukraine ceases to exist – along
with its culture, history and language."
"A separate victim of Russian aggression is Russian culture itself. Ukrainians are rejecting it wholesale, in a spontaneous reaction
that did not require any parliamentary decisions. In fact, the Ukrainian parliament has adopted a law prohibiting the importation of
Russian books and publications for sale."
That's misguided. Ukrainians' enemy should not be the Russian language, though I can understand their aversion if they have
been compelled to use Russian against their will.
"In the occupied territories, of course, there will be no Ukrainian books until they have been liberated. For the time being,
everything there will be Russian."
I don't speak Ukrainian. For the time being, I would avoid speaking in Russian to Ukrainians.
Oh I'm being perfectly honest, not sure about you though. Feel free to dig up all of my past posts you can see I'm against this war in the first place. I don't know if you can tell the difference, but being realistic about civilian casualties is different from "cheering on the destruction of Ukraine in terms of lives and culture".
Open up an evacuation route for civilians and provide as much assistance as possible to the evacuee, give a certain reasonable deadline until civilian can evacuate. After that all means is justified, if the enemy forcefully keep civilians as human shield then all the guilt lies on them.
Which by the way seems to be exactly the course of action the Russians choose.
Agreed, I see all war as unjustified, and we should always find ways to avoid such a tragic misstep from happening ever again. Either Ukraine is a model democracy that is racially inclusive or a festering nest of Neo-Nazis doesn't change that innocent lives in Ukraine and now even those who lived in poorer regions got affected by this crisis. The two contrasting propaganda is just a repeat in history of how wars are usually justified to the population of both sides, but in the grander scheme of things the true reason is always either over material things like resources, territories, populations, security or over power, control and prestige of the handful of people claiming to serve the interest of the people. The population is duped to think the other side is our enemy and who are our allies and kin.
Following the pro-Russian accounts, I can see different types of position take up by them, some wants to crush these "Neo-nazis" and some are actually afraid that Ukraine will attack them in the future, sharing videos of officials in Ukraine, talking about working with NATO to develop nukes and missiles to attack Moscow. Its always the minorities that managed to gain a hold of power over the majority, unilaterally making choices for them, and then sharing the suffering and burden to the majority.
But again, I feel powerless. Even if it is wrong, I have no choice. The other group want me to dead, subjugated or worse, while the group that I'm defined to willingly or not, wants the same for the other side. Its beyond my control, and I can only either look out for myself and others, or contributing whatever I can through diplomacy and understanding between both sides, finding a solution that fits both sides.
Broccoli
Senior Member
Amazing how Russians have seemingly forgotten basic things like having enough trucks... do they have more armored vehicles than trucks?
Broccoli
Senior Member
Not a first time were seen Russian using civilian trucks in past few weeks.
First time I owe apology for David Axe.
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