Ukrainian War Developments

Status
Not open for further replies.

plawolf

Lieutenant General
not justified, either morally or strategically. The reality is that the west was successful in turning Ukraine to their side. It would have been a fair game for Russia to turn it back peacefully. But Russia didn't have the kind of influence anymore. So it cheated by using force. In the end, Russia's security is weakened. But I don't deny there might be some emotional gain, which is important.

故上兵伐谋,其次伐交,其次伐兵,其下攻城。

Were you asleep when Russia won Ukraine over through giving it a better economic deal than the EU and the CIA did a regime change coup straight away?

It was the west that cheated and ripped up the rule book first when they lost. Now they are whining because the Russians finally lost all patience and pushed back harder than they can handle. Which is basically standard behaviour for the modern idiotic west.
 

enroger

Junior Member
Registered Member
In the long run this will end with a weaker Europe and a weaker Europe may not be a very reliable ally for the USA to have, not to mention that none of these games really help to solve the fundamental problems that the USA has. In fact, you can say that it will simply make the problem worse since it will cause the USA to ignore these problems even more until it is simply too late to fix them.
In the end, wars shouldn’t be fought at all and ultimately all wars have a cost, I mean look at the debt and economic issues resulting from such that the USA has right now, all that printed money going into wars rather then developing the USA. The longer China can remain out of the fight, the better as it will give them more time to prepare so coming out on top will incur the least amount of damage as possible

From the US perspective a weak Europe is still preferable to an independent Europe, even a weakened Europe is still economic powerhouse useful in economic war against China.

I agree with you this doesn't solve any of the chronic problems of the US, it would take complete grass root revolution to solve it, which is to say impossible. The US will remain in it's current power/economic structure throughout it's decline.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
Korean and Vietnam was protecting treaty allies being invaded by foreign countries. Indian and Russian border wars were really escalations about territorial disputes during Mao era, which I wouldn't generalize to modern PRC.

Also, I would distinguish cold war era and post cold war era. History is moving forward and we are striving for higher standard now. I would say China is against all wars in today's world.
if China is against all wars, does that mean that a country can provoke China to any degree beyond borders, such as dump toxic waste 100 m away from Chinese borders, conduct nuclear tests 100 m away, round up overseas PRC citizens to concentration camps and they're 100% safe from retaliation because it's better to not get involved in wars?
 

Sardaukar20

Captain
Registered Member
Really .. and anything comming from the pro-Ruussian side is nothing but the truth and facts!?

I think anyone with a decent rationale knows pretty sure that the truth is one of the first victim of any war but I find it - to put it mildly - that some here still think this is a justified war against a Nazi-regime, that only military targets are attacked and destroyed and that the Russian mission is progressing as planned.

We should take ANY claim if not substantiated by image proof with a huge grain of salt.
Both the Western and Russian media were guilty of distortion and propaganda. But from what I have observed since 2014, the Russian side has been telling a heck of a lot more truths about Ukraine than the Western side.

When Russia said that there were Nazis in Ukraine, that was fact. Even the Western media can't hide that fact. Ukraine's got the Right Sector, a militant group of the Euromaidan. Their flag is an adoption of the old Stephan Bandera flag of Red and Black. Who is Stephan Bandera? We can all look him up. Most infamous of all, they have the Azov Battalion. Those Nazis adopted the Wolfsangel symbol, the same symbol that was used by the 2nd SS Panzer Division Das Reich. You can't get any more obvious than that. These are not facts that had just appeared on 24th Feb 2022, they have been there since 2014.

The problem with Ukraine is that their Nazis were not just some skin-head gangs. They were actual armed militant groups, and they had become part of the Ukrainian military. These fascists were far from harmless. They have perpetrated the Odessa massacre (reported by the UN OHCHR), that kicked-off the 2014 civil war in Ukraine, and have been waging war on Eastern Ukrainians ever since, for 8 years. Then there is Ukrainian side flouting the Minsk I & II Agreements. Then there was the actual banning of the Russian language by the Verkhovna Rada in 2019. Something bad is bound to happen when there has been 8 years of bloodshed, ethnic cleansing, Russophobia, threat of NATO ascension, and nuclear weapon ambitions.

It is difficult to argue that there is a serious problem now in the world media. I have never seen censorship at such a scale ever. Not even the Soviets could ever pull off censorship of such scale and sophistication. And this super-censorship is carried out by the Western democracies! Both the West and Russia tell their own biased stories. But the stories from the Ukrainian and the West are filled with so many holes, it has become embarrassing. If they were really telling more truths than Russia, why do they need this super-censorship on Russia? There is no need to do that if Russia was truly telling lies. People can make up their own minds. The West has far superior media and academic strength to combat Russian disinformation. Why are they so weak this time, that they need to hide behind censorship? Are they actually afraid of people getting curious about Russia's story? For me, this super-censorship of Russia alone is a big red flag that Ukraine and the West are lying big time.

If we want to criticize Russia. Well, Russia's own version of disinformation is actually more akin to omission. They hardly share information about their losses. This thing is not unique to Russia alone. And yes, the Russians did tell some lies, but those lies were still nothing on the scale of lies by the Ukrainians and the West. But Russia, unlike Ukraine and the West had even dared to backtrack on statements that were later found to be false. This is not what Russia is could ever do, if we fully believe the West. Nevertheless, should we be concerned about what Russia is hiding and lying about, don't worry. Its all out there on the MSM, sometimes many times exaggerated. We can watch them, and make our own assessment.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
@victoon Pacifism can potentially be more dangerous than warmongering.

At least a warmonger has a small chance of survival if they gain begrudging respect for their aggression and cruelty, while a pacifist has zero respect from anyone and people view them as contemptible and weak.

Proof: Germany was a genocidal imperialist warmonger for hundreds of years.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
in Africa. they have also lost every single war they've fought since 1870 when they beat France. Even in Africa, they were
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
in the end.

But because of their cruelty and aggression, even after 150+ years of military humiliation, people still fear Germany and view them as a potential great power. Germany today has been richly rewarded despite a long record of aggression and defeat.

Meanwhile, how about Thailand? Never colonized, never started a war. Where are they now?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top