Ukrainian War Developments

Status
Not open for further replies.

vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
My point in that post was to point exactly what you’re doing now! I’ll make it very simple:

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THE UNITED STATES HAS THE AUTHORITY TO DICTATE TO CHINA WHICH FOREIGN, OR DOMESTIC, POLICIES ARE IN CHINA’S BEST INTEREST? YES, OR NO?

Is that sufficiently clear?
Ever heard of the phrase “The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must”?

China is still weaker than the Hegemon and the Hegemon can still inflict considerable costs to China (with some costs to itself). All countries obey the Hegemon’s diktats to some degree, the reason behind Mr. Putin‘s
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
. China has been obeying the Hegemon’s diktats ever since Deng’s reforms. Obviously she has been obeying less and less and the day she can free herself from them is coming. However, people on this forum is debating whether it is in the best interests of China to ignore the diktat on weapon support.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Are you certain that this is what we were talking about?

Because, as a, very active, participant in that discussion, myself and most of the others (if I’m not mistaken) thought it was about whether, or not, the US had the right, standing, or authority to impose that decision upon, and to require a statement, thereto, upon the Chinese leadership.

I am aware that is the consternation that some people were feeling over US claims.

If people had written that the US has no such right to make such claims, but also that it would not be in China's interest to provide arms to Russia, then that would not be an issue.


When people then started coming up with ways of trying to argue how it was in China's interest to provide arms to Russia or how China should do it out of spite -- that is the topic I find objectionable.
 

zgx09t

Junior Member
Registered Member
1: I only addressed weapons sales because the possibility of weapons sales is what everyone else talked about in the last few pages. I am well aware that there's been no proof of Russia seeking China to provide arms for its war on Ukraine -- I am talking about what China should do if Russia has requested it, or if Russia requests it in the near future.

2: Obviously it goes without saying that China will adjust to dynamic changes in the world. I am not saying that "time will always be on China's side for all eternity" -- I am saying that at present and into the foreseeable future, it is in China's interest to delay a future confrontation in economic and technological domains.

3: I have no idea what this means in relation to the discussion about Chinese interests for economic and technological competition and geopolitical strategy.

1. Wild goose chase, pointless and fruitless. Everything indicates, despite posturing from west, nobody really wants things to get out of control. Ukraine is pretty much a foregone conclusion and a done deal as it is.

2. So is their interest to delay as long as possible, despite posturing and lecturing. They will do things where they are stronger and incurs less damage, likewise for China in tit for tat. Instead of an immediate Mexican standoff, we'd most likely see a ring dance with probing punches.

3. I'd leave it.
 

james smith esq

Senior Member
Registered Member
Ever heard of the phrase “The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must”?

China is still weaker than the Hegemon and the Hegemon can still inflict considerable costs to China (with some costs to itself). All countries obey the Hegemon’s diktats to some degree, the reason behind Mr. Putin‘s
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
. China has been obeying the Hegemon’s diktats ever since Deng’s reforms. Obviously she has been obeying less and less and the day she can free herself from them is coming. However, people on this forum is debating whether it is in the best interests of China to ignore the diktat on weapon support.
I’m glad the Haitians didn’t have that attitude in 1804, and the ‘Muricans in 1776. I like brushin’ my teeth!

Sorry to offend, but, to me, that’s simply an expression of having achieved a level of material comfort that one doesn’t want to risk. The biggest reason communism failed was because of its emphasis on materialism.

If that’s the case, why not just worship America; we got more stuff than anybody!
 
Last edited:

MortyandRick

Senior Member
Registered Member
Part 2:

"SP": - That is, we are talking about a much longer armed conflict than the one planned in Moscow at the beginning?

- Yes, definitely.

"SP": - I see. And how do you assess the pace of the operation?

- It was not a discovery for me that the Ukrainian army would offer us fierce resistance. For me, it was not news that a significant part of the population of Ukraine, which in 2014 was ready to meet us with flowers, either turned away from the Russian Federation, or took a clearly hostile position, or gloomy-neutral-passive perceives the arrival of Russian troops.

This, I repeat, is not a discovery for me. Why was it a discovery for the Kremlin? It turns out that the picture given to the highest military and political leadership of the country by our relevant specialists turned out to be, let's say, not too reliable. And on the basis of this unreliable information, a military operation is planned. Which at first was not aimed at classic military tasks - the priority defeat and destruction of enemy manpower and equipment, rapid advance in some key areas.

As a result, the forces at our disposal are now advancing in five main directions. Northern - to Kiev, immediately on both banks of the Dnieper. Then to Kharkiv, to Mariupol on the southern flank. And from Crimea in two divergent directions.

"SP": - To Nikolaev and Kherson?

- Yes, on the one hand. On the other hand, to the same Mariupol. And on the curve - in Zaporozhye.

Now, most likely, we are making a belated regrouping. We form impact fists. But it's much more difficult to do than it would be originally.
Frankly speaking, I assumed, based on the usual military expediency, that the main goal in Ukraine would be the early encirclement and defeat of the main enemy forces, which are concentrated in Donbass. And in the first week of the operation, if it were not scattered like we did, such a goal could have been achieved quite easily.

In the same Crimean direction, our troops met very weak resistance. And they could not go to Mariupol, but immediately hit through Gulyaipole to the north. To cut off enemy communications on the way to the Dnieper (former Dnepropetrovsk). And the group that is coming south of Kharkiv could break through to meet them. And if these groups are sufficiently strengthened, the task of creating a huge "boiler" in the Donetsk region would probably be solved in the first week.

Now that the enemy's Donbass group has not retreated, but continues to fight on heavily fortified borders, ours are trying to attack it head-on.

Our troops storm heavily fortified enemy fortress cities. And in fact, undividedly owning the initiative on the front line, unconditionally dominating the air, we nevertheless play according to the rules proposed by the opponent. That's how it happened?

The Ukrainian military understands that in the open field, when Russian aviation constantly "hangs" over their heads and missile troops strike, nothing good "shines" in a combined arms battle. Therefore, they bet on retaining the most important cities. And in general, all cities where you can defend yourself for a long time. With a gradual retreat in all other directions.

The bet is on the fight in residential buildings, where our advantage in aviation, artillery, missiles is leveled very much. Plus - where there are a lot of civilians, which, of course, strongly restrain Russia in the use of firepower.

This is both Mariupol and Volnovakha, during which there were fierce battles for seven days. This is Severodonetsk and the Severodonetsk-Rubezhny defensive knot, which defends as a real fortress. This is Gulyaipole, this is Nikolaev.

And there is still Odessa ahead, which will be feverishly strengthened for a month. Ahead - Dnepropetrovsk, Zaporozhye, Krivoy Rog.
In all these cities, the enemy creates fortresses. Brings troops there and prepares them in advance for the fight surrounded. Sets the task of defending as long as possible. I repeat: now in fact we are playing according to the rules of the opponent. The enemy very competently chose passive defense.

"SP": - Does he play black?

- Yes, black. But there is a time factor. To delay the course of hostilities in all possible is a conscious strategy not only of the Ukrainian side, but also of its curators.

"SP": - So the bet is on the exhaustion of Russia?

- Of course. They want to leave the Russian Federation completely destroyed cities, the restoration of which will fall on the economy of our country with additional burdens. And the population is completely ruined, angry, cursing everything in the world. And that's what they plan to do in every city.

What can the Russian Federation oppose in this situation? Should there be a way out of this deadlock? Apparently, it may consist in a sharp increase in the number of the fighting Russian group.

Hoping on an easy hike to Ukraine within a maximum of a few weeks, the Russian authorities were not prepared for the current situation. Anyone can clearly see it. The quality of the Russian state apparatus may not be lower than the skirting board. But somewhere in the area. Therefore, I don't know how to mobilize him quickly, conditionally speaking. "United Russia" does not even closely resemble the CPSU (b), which in the most difficult conditions of 1941 managed to ensure order and raise the whole country on alarm.

Based on this, I repeat once again: we have no years in reserve in Ukraine. We have months at best. And in order to win during these months and at least smooth out the consequences of a powerful blow to our economy and social sphere, it is necessary not to bring water with glasses, but to establish normal mobilization work. Both in the economy and in the military sense of the word.

"SP": - Igor Vsevolodovich, I will bring you back to our November conversation. Then I invited you to introduce yourself as our military leadership. And I asked to answer how you would have acted if the current special operation had started at that time. You said then: "After the defeat of the Ukrainian army, I would establish a line from Kharkov to Tiraspol, thus depriving Kiev of half of the population and all access to the sea. And then he would say, "Let's put up or goodbye." Is this a real forecast today?

- Not anymore.

"SP": - So time is missed or what?

- A year ago, I was too optimistic about the situation. The chances of such an outcome have already been missed.

If in 2014 the case ended with the defeat of the Ukrainian army, and our troops reached Odessa, Kiev would simply dream of making peace on any terms. As long as we don't take Kiev and kick them out.

If the Russian army now stops on the line along the Dnieper, Ukraine, even if it goes to some truce, it will be a truce only for a month or two. For which they will pump up forces, receive weapons, master them, retrain and prepare new combat-ready units. And before that, the enemy won't just sit in defense. He will attack us continuously and everywhere with sabotage and reconnaissance groups.

In this war, we have only one alternative: either to completely eliminate this regime. Without any denamification, it will happen by itself. Or we'll feel bad.

So we'll have to go to Lviv. To the very border. That's the only thing you need to plan in Moscow.


Source:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


I want to put this translation here because it’s a good analysis of Russian shortcomings. Hope you guys read it.
Wow that’s avery sobering assessment. i hope that Russia pulls this one off but if this interview is to be believed then then the Russians are screwed?
 

Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
1. Wild goose chase, pointless and fruitless. Everything indicates, despite posturing from west, nobody really wants things to get out of control. Ukraine is pretty much a foregone conclusion and a done deal as it is.

2. So is their interest to delay as long as possible, despite posturing and lecturing. They will do things where they are stronger and incurs less damage, likewise for China in tit for tat. Instead of an immediate Mexican standoff, we'd most likely see a ring dance with probing punches.

3. I'd leave it.
Why doesn't Russia use it's fully military might, it's nuke arsenal, and expend all resources available domestically, before asking China to help win Ukrainian war?

Why should China risk it's ass to save Russia when Russia hasn't even tried calling up reservists, mandatory conscription, strategic bombers, nuclear weapons to decisively win Ukraine? Russia has options at it's disposal, China aid is not required or necessary to win Ukraine.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
1. Wild goose chase, pointless and fruitless. Everything indicates, despite posturing from west, nobody really wants things to get out of control. Ukraine is pretty much a foregone conclusion and a done deal as it is.

2. So is their interest to delay as long as possible, despite posturing and lecturing. They will do things where they are stronger and incurs less damage, likewise for China in tit for tat. Instead of an immediate Mexican standoff, we'd most likely see a ring dance with probing punches.

3. I'd leave it.

1. So you are saying that you believe that if China provides arms to Russia for use in this conflict, the US/Europe/rest will not seek to escalate economically and technologically against China? If so, then I simply disagree with you.

2. That is very much in China's interest for the short and medium term, and China should seek to avoid doing actions to disabuse them of their current policy
 

enroger

Junior Member
Registered Member
Dude, posing with no shirt on is tabloidy!

I’m simply questioning whether, or not Putin is acting in Russia’s interests, or his own! I doubt I’d be scrutinized so thoroughly we’re I questioning Drumpf’s strategic assessments, at least by most in this forum. Am I correct?

And you're free to do so, I'm not thought police lol.... Just saying I don't want go down that route since it is a realm of zero data infinite subjectivity where no conclusion can be made.

Even with Trump I'd still first think in terms of his action related to US interest.... unless it is obviously off the fucking rail.... which is numerous in occasion I'll admit....
 

zgx09t

Junior Member
Registered Member
Why doesn't Russia use it's fully military might, it's nuke arsenal, and expend all resources available domestically, before asking China to help win Ukrainian war?

Why should China risk it's ass to save Russia when Russia hasn't even tried calling up reservists, mandatory conscription, strategic bombers, nuclear weapons to decisively win Ukraine? Russia has options at it's disposal, China aid is not required or necessary to win Ukraine.

I'd not be of much help to your questions, but one thing I can say for sure is Putin has a strategic prepared mindset to give a march order when it is time to give a march order. When it's time to press the button, he'll press the button. It was the west that got their pants down. But I believe nuclear blasts are far quicker than the pain in a visit to dentist office, so no worries.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MBM
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top