Ukraine Revolt/Civil War News, Reports, Data, etc.

Col Cassad attempts a count of how many armoured units made it to Artemivsk.
I got to the below before the translation got me lost.

"What about make: tanks - up to 10 (Tank Company), BMP, BTR, MT -LB - up to 40 (mechanized infantry battalion) self-propelled artillery systems and machine control - up to 10 (artillery battery) BRDM - up to 10 (reconnaissance company) "

How did Ukraine manage to evacuate so many troops and vehicle from an encircled position? Wouldn't they have had to attack entrenched NAF militia? It seems like a very poor encirclement if 80+% of the Ukrainian soldiers managed to escape.

Geographer said:

How did Ukraine manage to evacuate so many troops and vehicle from an encircled position? Wouldn't they have had to attack entrenched NAF militia? It seems like a very poor encirclement if 80+% of the Ukrainian soldiers managed to escape.

Click to expand...

I think the point is that it is all the fog of war right now.

Some say the encirclement was complete...others say not.

Some say only a few hundred Ukrainians made it out...others say thousands.

We need to be careful about posting every report in such a situation...and certainly should not post links to things that the poster themselves admit is "Chest beating and warmongering" on SD.

Now here is an option to conjure with.
The NAF and ATO forces agreed for the ATO to withdraw with weapons, but neither side is prepared to admit it!

Geographer said:

How did Ukraine manage to evacuate so many troops and vehicle from an encircled position? Wouldn't they have had to attack entrenched NAF militia? It seems like a very poor encirclement if 80+% of the Ukrainian soldiers managed to escape.

Click to expand...

There was a group of UAF positioned outside the encirclement which was intended to support the troops within the 'cauldron'. It seems what is being reported on primarily is that forces movement out of the area, with their functional equipment.

Within the encirclement itself, a clean-up is going on with UAF having surrendered to Separatists and being disarmed. Various reports of mixed armor and artillery pieces having been captured by the Separatists.

What is not clear still is the status of the surrendered UAF. The treaty stipulates a full transfer of prisoners. This 'break-out' may be a combination of the disarmed UAF funnelling out of the area and the pull back of the supporting group.

Jeff Head said:

I think the point is that it is all the fog of war right now.

Some say the encirclement was complete...others say not.

Some say only a few hundred Ukrainians made it out...others say thousands.

Click to expand...

Indeed. There were reports that the Ukrainian Army were attacked as they withdrew. So the encirclement could have been incomplete or just weak in certain areas. It's quite possible the rebels were overconfident about the control they had on the area.

Equation said:

UK says photos show Russian missiles in Ukraine

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Click to expand...

No, Equation, you're mistaken. Those missiles are in Ukraine by accident. The unit(s) in question got lost on a "training exercise". They're still trying to find their way back to Russia (might take them a while, of course).

Mr T said:

No, Equation, you're mistaken. Those missiles are in Ukraine by accident. The unit(s) in question got lost on a "training exercise". They're still trying to find their way back to Russia (might take them a while, of course).

Click to expand...

Time to use their GPS system on their smart phones.

80% is what Kiev said. How much faith do you have in the info that Kiev had been putting out?

According to the Cassad link this is what was caught in the Cauldron:

"In total, the South (environment) groups APU, apparently, were:

- Up to two battalion tactical groups of 128 ogpbr;
- At least two groups of 30 company tactical Hombre;
- Units of the battalion task force 25 Separate Airborne Brigade;
- 11 separate mechanized infantry battalion;
- 25 separate mechanized infantry battalion "Kievan Rus';
- 40 separate mechanized infantry battalion "Kryvbas";
- Unit 8 Spetsnaz Regiment and 101 Brigade Guard General Staff;
- Up to 17 company tactical groups TRUNC;
- A company of the 2nd Battalion of the SS;
- Battalion DOS militia "Svitiaz";
- Battalion Militia "Lviv"
- At least three artillery battalions cannon artillery;
- At least rocket artillery battalion, including - 5 reabatr 27 jet regiment."

And this was what made it into ARTEMIVSK. For all we know that could be the remaints of the breaking force that tried to break open the blockage from the outside. That is actually about an under strength battalion that made it into town. 80%?

"What about make:tanks - up to 10 (Tank Company)BMP, BTR, MT-LB - 40 (mechanized infantry battalion)Self-propelled artillery systems and machine control - up to 10 (artillery battery)BRDM - up to 10 (reconnaissance company).
A certain amount of engineering machinery."

Geographer said:

How did Ukraine manage to evacuate so many troops and vehicle from an encircled position? Wouldn't they have had to attack entrenched NAF militia? It seems like a very poor encirclement if 80+% of the Ukrainian soldiers managed to escape.

Click to expand...

According to Saker, the militia claimed to have killed about 3,500 Kiev soldiers.

Fortruss has an article on what trophies the militia has claimed from the battlefield:






By Aleksey Smirnitskiy


Translated from Russian by J.Hawk
We are receiving the first reports concerning the approximate numbers of equipment captured in the Debaltsevo cauldron.

1. Armored vehicles. By first estimates, Novorossia captured over 80 tanks in repairable condition. Some of them were fully operational, even loaded with ammunition. Some have been abandoned without fuel, others were abandoned after their tracks were damaged, most of the vehicles captured have light or medium damage. This is sufficient for at least two tank battalions.
According to the official Kiev GenStaff announcement, as many as 15 tanks managed to leave the cauldron…out of at least 5 battalion tactical groups which were originally in the cauldron and 4 additional ones that were sent in to help.
Over 100 BMPs and BTRs have been captured in repairable condition. The junta managed to take out only about 50.

2. Artillery. Not fewer than fifty 122mm and 152mm weapons (not counting 120mm mortars), many of which are repairable, and about 15 BM-21 122mm Grad launchers. At least 500 tons of artillery ammunition.

3.A huge amount of small arms, including heavy machine guns, RPGs, RPOs [flame rocket launchers used for assaulting fortified positions and buildings]. Storehouses of food and medicine. Other goods.

4. Novorossia commanders are especially grateful to the numerous volunteer organizations which have equipped the junta’s forces so well: the hundreds of night vision devices, digital radio stations, thermal imagers, modern ballistic computers and fire direction gear, wound treatment and anti-shock kits of Western origin, Kevlar helmets (even though Russian ones are better, there aren’t enough of them), modern body armor, will be of great use.

J.Hawk’s Comment: Just to reiterate, these are the weapons and equipment which are in repairable condition. Many of UAF’s losses were irretrievable—there are many photos circulating on the internet showing fields and roads littered with burned out armored vehicles left behind by the UAF