Ukraine Revolt/Civil War News, Reports, Data, etc.

thunderchief

Senior Member
If Russia mobilizes, Ukraine will as well and do so under support from the West. In an industrial war, the winner is the last to arm with the latest technology in largest numbers. For this reason, the proposal to switch to a war economy in Russia now is a sign of weakness and highlights that the effects of COCOM were easily forgotten. Russia is digging themselves ever deeper into a hole and they need to get out in order to avoid hurting themselves too much. Russia is no worldpower with its economy and population size. They should be satisfied with Crimea and understand their limits.
Quite interesting where Chechens turn up as fighters, but if you know about life in their homelands, these wars are a better way of life for them.

War with Ukraine is just an afterthought for Russians. After all, they are aware that full scale Russian attack would crush Ukrainian army fairly quickly . West would not just give Ukrainians enough weapons for free, and even if they do, dumping equipment on someone does not make them an army (recent example are Iraqis) .

What really bothers average Russian and what they see could be given in this example : recently Dutch F-16s intercepted some Russian planes over Baltic (international air space ) . Video of the event was on Youtube . There were lot of comments from Netherlands saying something like "They should have shot them down" , "Russian barbarians have no right to fly over Baltic" and even worse . All those comments got lot of "likes" .

For the average Russian , reading this (and yes, they do use Youtube ) this means : " Dutch, who got no bones to pick with us, are coming to our part of the world , threatening to kill us . " In his mind, and seeing recent examples around the world, West is striving to simply divide, conquer and plunder Russia . What is even worse, this is not a product of a Kremlin propaganda , it is their own conclusions based on the facts they have . What other recourse does he have then to ask from his government (and even to be mad on them for not doing it fast enough ) to produce as many nuclear-tipped missiles and other weapons , targeting those "murderous cannibalistic monsters" in the West ?

For those interested, here is an article by Russian author (translated from Russian) , that explains lot about Russian mindset and their lost love of Western culture :

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...

What really bothers average Russian and what they see could be given in this example :...

"average Russian speaking again" ... and in the meantime "Cassad" himself (plus several debaters below his blogs) recently complained about "the middle class" caring about the lack of
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instead of the fate of
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anyway, according to the sources I check http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/members-club-room/ukraine-revolt-civil-war-15-7103.html#post318429 the armistice wasn't breached up to now (yet?)
 

thunderchief

Senior Member
"average Russian speaking again" ... and in the meantime "Cassad" himself (plus several debaters below his blogs) recently complained about "the middle class" caring about the lack of
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instead of the fate of
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anyway, according to the sources I check http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/members-club-room/ukraine-revolt-civil-war-15-7103.html#post318429 the armistice wasn't breached up to now (yet?)

Depends how would you define middle class. Those buying expensive Italian cheese could be defined as upper-middle class, and they are usually somehow connected to Putin's regime. I know that West is hoping on them to perform some kind of palace coup, but that is highly unlikely because even if they succeed in bringing down Putin, they would be quickly removed by more nationalistic forces on the street .

Realistically, Putin is actually best bet for the West, because outwardly he poses as great nationalistic leader , but secretly compromises with West more often then not . Any replacement would not be someone like Yeltsin , Yegor Gaidar , Anatoly Chubais or even like Medvedev .
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
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neat Photo taken near Donetsk. Ukrainian SF Team posing in modern gear with Fort-221 ( Manufactured by RPC Fort in Vinnytsia, (Western) Ukraine), a Licenced Version of the IWI Tavor in 5.45x39mm.
 

Miragedriver

Brigadier
Pro-Russians rebels fired on positions of the Ukrainian military in Donetsk region, Eastern Ukraine:
[video=youtube;yF7MgjecOgg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yF7MgjecOgg&feature=player_embedded[/video]



I will now get back to bottling my Malbec
 

Miragedriver

Brigadier
DNR "Patriot" division at work:
[video=youtube;J52TLAMsXVY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J52TLAMsXVY&feature=player_embedded[/video]



I will now get back to bottling my Malbec
 

delft

Brigadier
Pro-Russians rebels fired on positions of the Ukrainian military in Donetsk region, Eastern Ukraine:
[video=youtube;yF7MgjecOgg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yF7MgjecOgg&feature=player_embedded[/video]



I will now get back to bottling my Malbec
The translation of the title of this video is odd. The Russian says "Spesnaz DNR at work".
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Guys, the posts about the actual events in the Urkaine and the fighting are fine. As are discussions about the strategy involving the same...both on the part of the Ukraine and the provinces in question.

Even the strategy related directly to the ongoing events on the ground there by the principle supporters of each side (The EU and US on one side, and the Russians on the other) is fine as long as it does not get political.

Having said that, the pure political, nationalistic, ideological discussions about what is going on completely separate from this are off topic and out of line. We do not need to hear about potential coops in Russia bringing down Putin. We do not need to hear about Russian civilians getting upset over another country intercepting Russian aircraft in international space and pure absolute hear say about what the citizens from each country have said about it.

The Russians have the right to fly their military aircraft into international air space, the Dutch and others have the same right...call it an intercept or whatever. As long as they do not hazard each other, they can fly up there and wave at each other and take pictures, etc. to their hearts content.

This discussion has been suspennded and shut down before because of going off topic and because of politics, ideology and nationalism entring in. Please do not force us to do so again.

STAY ON TOPIC...leave politics, nationalism, ideology, and chest thumping out of it.

DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS MODERATION

Jeff Head
SD SUPER MODERATOR
 

delft

Brigadier
From the BBC website:
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12 December 2014 Last updated at 20:33 GMT
Ukraine 'must double' defence spending to $3bn - minister

Ukraine must double its military budget next year to $3bn (£1.9bn) to fund the fight against pro-Russian rebels, the defence minister has said.

Stepan Poltorak told parliament that this figure included an extra $110m for buying weapons abroad.

He also said the armed forces would have to conscript more soldiers.

More than 4,000 people have been killed and almost a million displaced in the eight-month conflict between Ukrainian forces and pro-Russian rebels.

The rebels seized control of part of the eastern regions of Donetsk and Luhansk in April.

Ukraine and Nato countries have accused Russia of sending weapons and soldiers to aid the rebels - a charge Russia denies.

Mr Poltorak told parliament on Friday that the extra money was needed to buy better equipment for the military.

The number of soldiers serving in the east of the country would also have to be increased from 232,000 at present to 250,000 next year, he said.

He said the government planned to increase the number of conscripts as well as professional soldiers. The annual budget is expected to be passed before the end of the year.

Shaky truce

Ukraine has repeatedly asked Western countries to equip it with weapons to fight the separatist rebels.

However, Nato members have only pledged non-lethal military aid, amid concerns that shipments of heavy weapons could antagonise Russia.

On Thursday, Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk said his country would have to increase defence expenditure at the cost of slashing social payments.

He also called for an international donor conference to help Ukraine avoid defaulting on its debts.

The International Monetary Fund has warned that Ukraine faces a $15bn budget shortfall next year.

Meanwhile, a truce in eastern Ukraine appears to be holding.

President Petro Poroshenko said earlier that the past 24 hours were the first in which both sides had observed a ceasefire.

The warring sides signed a truce in Minsk in September, but more than 1,000 people have been killed in fighting since then, the UN says.

The Ukraine crisis began a year ago, when then-President Viktor Yanukovych abandoned an agreement on closer trade ties with EU in favour of closer co-operation with Russia.

This decision sparked pro-EU protests in the capital Kiev, eventually toppling Mr Yanukovych in February.

In the weeks that followed, Russia annexed Crimea, in Ukraine's south, and pro-Russian separatists took control of Donetsk and Luhansk, declaring independence.

The crisis has caused a serious rift between Russia and Ukraine's Western supporters.
Btw The BBC has now a new map of the area accompanying this article that closely resembles the map at Colonel Cassad, fot example here:
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Miragedriver

Brigadier
The working week of a militia. Area of Slavyanoserbsk, capturing of a water tower:
[video=youtube;kXzSec_ul7E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXzSec_ul7E&feature=player_embedded[/video]


I will now get back to bottling my Malbec
 
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