UK Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Jeff Head

Jeff Head

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World Maritime News said:
The MoD plans to commission three new ocean-going Offshore Patrol Vessels for the Royal Navy in a deal that will sustain jobs in the UK’s warship building industry. The new ships, which will be built by BAE Systems at their shipyards on the Clyde, will play a key role in counter-terrorism, counter-piracy and anti smuggling operations.

The agreement with BAE Systems provides work for the company between the completion of the Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers and the Type 26 Global Combat Ship, securing the vital skills needed to build the UK’s future warships.

The Defence Secretary is also announcing today that more than £100 million will be invested in Her Majesty’s Naval Base Portsmouth, which will be home to both HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Prince of Wales.

The money will expand the dockyard to ensure it is ready for the arrival of the Royal Navy’s biggest ever warships as well as the Type 45 destroyers which are based in Portsmouth.

Under the Terms of Business Agreement signed with BAE Systems in 2009 the MoD would have been liable to pay for any periods when no shipbuilding was taking place at UK yards.

Building Offshore Patrol Vessels means not only are staff at BAE Systems able to continue to work and maintain their skills, but the Royal Navy benefits from three new ships and the taxpayer gets much better value for money.

The cost of building the ships is funded from money that would have been used to pay for idle capacity, finance redundancies and meet the cost of industrial restructuring.

Portsmouth will maintain its proud maritime heritage as the home of much of the Royal Navy’s surface fleet and the centre of BAE Systems ship support and maintenance business.

Work on the new Offshore Patrol Vessels is due to begin next year with the first ship being delivered to the Royal Navy in 2017. The ships are expected to replace the current, smaller River Class vessels, HM Ships Tyne, Severn and Mersey which have been policing the UK’s waters since 2003, but a final decision will be taken in the next Strategic Defence and Security Review.
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It will be interesting to see if these new vessels are similar to the improved River Class, Clyde (shown above), or will they be similar to the brand new Amzonas Class OPVs that BAE Systems just built for Brazil (shown below):


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asif iqbal

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
Four shipyards to under go cuts with second carrier blocks to be built at Govan and not Portsmouth

Also patrol vessels and Type 26 is to be built in Scotland with England just having Submarine build at Barrow Furnance since Scotland has built no submarines of this class the jobs at Barrow are secure

However my question is if Scotland becomes independent will these contracts for the carrier, patrol ships and frigates still go to Scotland?

England is putting everything into the Scottish basket which is great news for Scotland but bad news for England

There is simply not enough war ship building work to cover four shipyards there's too mich spare capacity, Type 26 is 13 units it's not enough work for four BAE shipyards

If we build another 6 x Type 45 DDG the 4 x MARS tankers and say another 11 Type 26 to make 24 FFG then that can keep four yards open otherwise jobs have to go

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Jeff Head

Jeff Head

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asif iqbal said:
Four shipyards to under go cuts with second carrier blocks to be built at Govan and not Portsmouth

Also patrol vessels and Type 26 is to be built in Scotland with England just having Submarine build at Barrow Furnance.

England is putting everything into the Scottish basket which is great news for Scotland but bad news for England

There is simply not enough war ship building work to cover four shipyards there's too mich spare capacity, Type 26 is 13 units it's not enough work for four BAE shipyards
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Well, certainly building and commissioning three OPVs between the two Queen Es and the 13 new frigates will sustain some jobs, but no way can it carry over the workforce that it took to build those two carriers.

That's why they are seeing the cuts.

The OPVs are what? 1,800 tons each...maximum, 2,000 tons each? Times three.

The two carriers are 65,000 tons each. That math is pretty straight forward.

As much as I would love to see the UK build 12 Darings, and 24 of these new FFGs, it's just not going to happen short of an absolute major politcal and electoral sea change in the UK.

We are not to the sampe point here in the US yet, but we are heading there.

When you reach a point when there are as many...or more...of the working age citizens on entitlement and give away programs as there are people actually working, something has to give.

Until the economy actualy craters and the entitlements physically can no longer be sustained, other programs are going to get the axe, because politicians are looking out for their own "re-election," and their own hides. So, sadly, in far too many cases, it becomes the defense of the nation that those axe strokes cut into the worst.

That is, up until the economy either comes apart and austerity programs simply have to cut the entitlements way back...or until the safety and defense of the nation is credibly threatened from a committed foe/adversary which then causes the same.

I just hope at this point that over the next 20 years and more, that the UK proceeds with and maintains and keeps in service both carriers, all six of the Darings DDGs, all of the Astute SSNs, and all of the FFGs that will be coming.
 
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asif iqbal

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
I am not sure if the MARS Replenishment tankers are built to warship standards but four of them are being built in South Korea no UK shipyards even got a call in sideways

That's 148,000 tons of ship for the Royal Auxillary Fleet more tonnage than both Queen Elizabeth carriers put together!

In total 6 x Type 45 and 13 x Type 26 will give RN a fleet of 19 warships, hardly a huge force especially when you consider the escorts for two carrier battle groups

4 ships made up of Type 45 and Type 26
1 MARS tanker
1 Astute Class SSN
And one carrier

Times this by two and already 40% of the surface warships are used up not to mention current commitments and down time for repairs, overhaul and upgrade, it's going to be really really stretched there is not "critical mass" in this fleet left

During the Falklands war UK had over 60 DDG and FFG that three times the fleet it's going to be, in such a situation you can absorb punishment and suffer casualties and fight on, with 19 warships you losse the critical mass which allows you to fight on one mistake and the game could be over its a very high risk stratedgy the increase in capability alone does not account for the huge gap in numbers
 
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Jeff Head

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
asif iqbal said:
with 19 warships you losse the critical mass which allows you to fight on one mistake and the game could be over its a very high risk stratedgy the increase in capability alone does not account for the huge gap in numbers
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Oh, I agree 100% asif. I would love to see the RN build more...and I believe they need more.

However, the political climate right now will not give them more. It's as a plain as that.

As I said, unless there is a significant sea change there politically and electorally, I do not see that changing any time soon.

More's the pity.
 
Jeff Head

Jeff Head

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Asif, looks like the UK's ministers are starting to answer your questions about Scotland and the ship orders:

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The Telegraph said:
Royal Navy warships will only be built in Scotland if voters reject independence next year, UK ministers warned on Wednesday after Glasgow’s shipyards were saved from closure and promised new work.

Philip Hammond, the Defence Secretary, triggered a huge political row by announcing that shipbuilding will end at the historic yard at Portsmouth next year, while Govan and Scotstoun on the Clyde remain open.

Furious English MPs accused him of attempting to bribe the Scots into rejecting separation, despite his insistence that the defence giant BAE Systems had reached the decision on purely commercial grounds.

Both Mr Hammond, and Alistair Carmichael, the Scottish Secretary, gave clear indications that a pledge that went with the announcement - to award the next multi-billion pound naval contract to Scotland - would be reversed in the event of a Yes vote.

The Defence Secretary said the Government only ordered warships from UK yards, while Mr Carmichael said Portsmouth would be “well placed” in the event of the break-up of the UK.

A final decision on the contract for 13 Type 26 Global Combat Ships will not be made until after the referendum, when there would still be time to reprieve shipbuilding at the Hampshire yard.
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asif iqbal

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
Jeff Head said:
Asif, looks like the UK's ministers are starting to answer your questions about Scotland and the ship orders:

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See this is blackmail, they are trying to scare play the people as the date of the referendum comes closer basically saying you guys go alone you stay alone!

Scotland will loose everything when it comes to warship building, we are a tiny country but built some of the Royal Navy's best ships, from Type 45 to Queen Elizabeth carriers such a small country with so much capability and it would be a shame to losse all that

It has taken decades and billions of investment to reach this stage and now it would be a shame if we threw it all away

UK together I say, if it's not broke don't fix it Scotland is getting a good deal right now so let's just keep it this way
 
Jeff Head

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
asif iqbal said:
See this is blackmail, they are trying to scare play the people as the date of the referendum comes closer basically saying you guys go alone you stay alone!
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Well, it's also called Real Politik. Now, are there enough UK MPs to make this stick? I do not know. But it is clear that there are those who will try.

Which is just another factor/condition/reality for the people of Scotland to take into account.

asif iqbal said:
Scotland will loose everything when it comes to warship building, we are a tiny country but built some of the Royal Navy's best ships, from Type 45 to Queen Elizabeth carriers such a small country with so much capability and it would be a shame to losse all that

It has taken decades and billions of investment to reach this stage and now it would be a shame if we threw it all away

UK together I say, if it's not broke don't fix it Scotland is getting a good deal right now so let's just keep it this way
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Well, the people will soon decide.

I personally hope they stay together as well. The Island can be much stronger united than if they go their seperate ways. but in the end, the people voting will have their say.

Canada has faced similar initiatives with Quebec on occassion. To date, those initiatives have failed.
 
Jeff Head

Jeff Head

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FORBIN said:
The first of 3 Rivet Joint signals intelligence aircraft has been delivered to MOD, 51 Squadron based Waddington, replace Nimrod R1 (
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These will be very capable aircraft for the Royal Air Force.

They are former USAF KC-135R tankers. All three of them first flew in 1964.

But, they are being modified, upgraded, and refit to the latest USAF RC-135W standard. Despite their age, these three aircraft themselves have the least service hours on them of any other KC-135s in the USAF inventory. Two of the aircraft had 23,200 hours on them and the third had 22,200 flying hours before being converted. They will cost the UK about $285 million each, and are expected to remain in service until 2045.


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