Type 076 LHD/LHA discussion

Blitzo

Blitzo

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AndrewS said:
From a strategic perspective, given the scale of the Taiwan challenge, you wouldn't want to devote unnecessary resources to complex high-end amphibious operations for distant seas.

We can also see that the US Navy LHDs are grossly over-specified (in terms of amphibious capabilities) for what they actually end up doing in real life.

Hence the US Navy is adding AFSBs (converted tankers) to operate amphib forces in those low-threat environments.

At the same time, the US Marine Corps is moving away from large ships for high-contested amphibious operations close to a hostile shore.

And that the shortage of big carrier decks is compelling the US Navy to use those LHDs as small (expendable) carriers.

So maybe the Chinese Navy is just ahead of the game in making the LHD primarily a sea control platform, with amphibious assault a secondary role.
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Actually I would argue that the 075 and 076 are somewhat unsuited for the Taiwan contingency and are better suited for longer distance and potentially even higher intensity amphibious operations.
That isn't to say that they wouldn't still contribute their fair share to a Taiwan contingency, however my point is that I think looking at the amphibious assault procurement that the PLAN is doing and what the 076 is being said to be like, the PLAN likely considers it necessary to develop complex high end amphibious operations in more distant seas.

Building on that, I think that for amphibious operations in high intensity environments where you are unable to be easily supported by land based air power, the requirement for conducting high intensity strike and ISR against a well defended high technology target is a fundamental prerequisite to allow an amphibious assault to take place in the first place.
 
Blitzo

Blitzo

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Higgle said:
A rumored 076 LHA/LHD is very spicy news. Maybe this is the "075A" that we've been wondering about for months now. We can only guess as to what the 'unique solution' might be.

Personally, I don't think a CATOBAR system is out of the question. EM catapults save a lot of space compared to steam catapults as you don't need to worry about where all the piping needs to go - just lay down the electrical cabling and you're sorted. This alone already makes EMALS a sensible launch solution for a 40k ton flat-top design.

But with such a small hull, it would not be good to use J-15s for an aircraft complement. Most likely it would have to be a small or medium-sized fighter like a navalized FC-31, like how the French use Rafales on their own 40k ton flat-top. But the 4th generation carrier-based fighter project has been very quiet as of late.

If the J-XY naval fighter programme is too much of a headache, they could do away with them entirely for the time being. UCAVs would be sufficient for ASW and fire support until 'sea 4th gen' is ready.

"Solution to the country's lack of F-35B" is, in my opinion, a strong indication that we can expect the 076's airwing to eventually include some form of small/medium-sized manned multirole fighter. The real question is how the fixed-wing aircraft would be launched and recovered.

Whatever the case, the possibilities are many. There's a lot you can squeeze onto a 40k ton ship even if you only consider the flight and hangar decks! Nevermind the lower decks which will undoubtedly be vehicle storage and well deck... Whether the 076 will be CATOBAR with manned fighters, CATOBAR with UCAVs, or just an oversize helicopter mule, they are all fine guesses. And this mystery LHA/LHD is the best PLAN guessing game we've had in a long, long time.

But I think 'solution to the lack of F-35Bs' means that we can expect something much more exciting than just a regular LHA/LHD.
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The part I've underlined and italicized is the one area where I'm slightly cautious about, because the phrasing of "solution to lack of F-35B" really depends on what we specifically look at the F-35B to be.

IMO, the F-35B's key parameters is that it's a stealthy aircraft with capable strike, ISR and also A2A capabilities.
However, I'm not necessarily sure if that requires an aircraft to be manned.

I can see the role of the F-35B conducted by only a flying wing UCAV complement for strike and ISR, and possibly A2A to a certain extent.
What it lacks for in terms of lack of a human in the aircraft could be made up for by endurance and potentially even stealth (given the far more stealthy configuration of a flying wing versus a conventional manned 5th gen today).
And in a true large scale conflict, obviously an amphibious assault force would be part of a larger naval force that includes carriers and their manned fighters providing proper CAP as well.
The role of the 076 in this context would be to supplement the naval task force's high end strike capability and providing additional ISR, and potentially being able to contribute to CAP if it can be integrated into an overall task force air defense/control architecture enabled by CeC.



But yes, this is definitely a surprise for all of us and the level of detail that the RFP provides is somewhat unprecedented if true.

I also am a bit amused that this seems to be the first time that we've come across the 076 designation and it's from pop3 replying to someone who mentioned my article. I wonder if I can write any more articles to shake out some more news lol.
 
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Mirabo

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Following on from the @Arienai posts on the last page - our friends at CD did some digging also.

Based on the costing sheet, the following is more or less confirmed, only short of seeing the real thing:

- LHA/LHD
- EMALS
- Supports UCAVs
- 30-ton class inboard elevator(s)
- Medium Voltage DC electrical system
- 21 MW class gas turbines
- 6 MW class diesels

Just wow.

We can expect a large LHD/LHA type ship in the 40k to 50k ton displacement range, featuring CATOBAR with EMALs, an airwing of UCAVs (possibly fixed-wing fighters in the future), and CODOG or CODAG propulsion. All this can be deduced from the costing sheet alone.

There are still some questions that we can speculate on:

- Straight deck or angled deck?
- Manned fixed-wing aircraft or not? Noted on your point @Bltizo
- How many catapults and elevators?
- Approximate displacement?

Some selected screenshots for reference from a CD user below.
rw7KChJ.jpg

ApYoiDm.jpg

o1tsn3i.jpg

M8eqktZ.jpg
 
Arienai

Arienai

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Yankee wrote a long piece about 076 today:
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Sorry that I don't have time to translate such a long article, but looks time Yankee and his workmate (施佬 and 席亚洲) knew about the existence of 076 for almost a year already.
 
Blitzo

Blitzo

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Arienai said:
Yankee wrote a long piece about 076 today:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Sorry that I don't have time to translate such a long article, but looks time Yankee and his workmate (施佬 and 席亚洲) knew about the existence of 076 for almost a year already.
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I mean, that as good as settles it.

I gotta say this is the fastest I think I've ever seen a new project and designation get identified/mentioned by the PLA watching community and then subsequently have the extent of info revealed, so quickly within less than 24 hours.
 
Blitzo

Blitzo

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Higgle said:
Following on from the @Arienai posts on the last page - our friends at CD did some digging also.

Based on the costing sheet, the following is more or less confirmed, only short of seeing the real thing:

- LHA/LHD
- EMALS
- Supports UCAVs
- 30-ton class inboard elevator(s)
- Medium Voltage DC electrical system
- 21 MW class gas turbines
- 6 MW class diesels

Just wow.

We can expect a large LHD/LHA type ship in the 40k to 50k ton displacement range, featuring CATOBAR with EMALs, an airwing of UCAVs (possibly fixed-wing fighters in the future), and CODOG or CODAG propulsion. All this can be deduced from the costing sheet alone.
Click to expand...

I would suspect if they have MVDC IEPS, wouldn't IEPS be a good candidate rather than CODOG or CODAG?
The time in which 076 would be expected to emerge would conceivably have IEPS be mature.
 
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banjex

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Have they gotten through their helicopter production bottleneck? They'll need many helis to equip this baby and her future sister ships.
 
D

Daniel707

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Bltizo said:
I would suspect if they have MVDC IEPS, wouldn't IEPS be a good candidate rather than CODOG or CODAG?
The time in which 076 would be expected to emerge would conceivably have IEPS be mature.
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Is any possibility this Type 076 LHD-CVL to have some J-35 onboard in the future? @Bltizo

With note, that J-35 would be smaller in dimension from current J-15.
 
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