Both Incat and Austal has been working in partnership with Chinese makers for a while, first selling boats directly to end users and then franchising the designs to the shipyards.
Type 022 Missile Boat
- Thread starter DPRKPTboat
- Start date
Both Incat and Austal has been working in partnership with Chinese makers for a while, first selling boats directly to end users and then franchising the designs to the shipyards.
joshuatree
Captain
Interesting, could anyone give a brief summary of what they were discussing about regarding the 022s? Seems like live fire exercises? Thanks!
They said the unit equipped with 022s is becoming combat ready after continuous training and have developed the tactic of how to utilize the 022s in actual combat scenario.
This is the first time I see 022s firing off their missiles in a group formation. Also recently pictures of the internal of the missile bay started to pop up on the internet. Guess after the naval parade the 022 is officially declassified.
joshuatree
Captain
Thanks for the recap. I wonder how many units there will be, sorta like wolf packs?
As for declassification, I'm not surprised considering the boat design is based on an Australian design so it's not a secret. The missiles fielded are not new designs either. But it was cool seeing the demo of missile firing in group formation. Did they fire and sink an old ship as the footage appears to show two missiles hitting a floating target?
Wiki has a list of PLAN mine warfare vessels, so taking a look there might help.
a description of an operation involving 022
It's from August 21st Edition of China Youth Daily. Talks about an exercise scenario that they tried out. Interesting part about this is that they talked about going out in a group of 7 022s, connecting with the data link, getting targeting data. It says that the AShM (I'm guessing YJ-83) has target selection capability (which is something we weren't aware of before), fly around obstacles, long range strike, strong resistance to ECM. It mentioned that 5 missiles are launched in this attack that all hit targets.
It's from August 21st Edition of China Youth Daily. Talks about an exercise scenario that they tried out. Interesting part about this is that they talked about going out in a group of 7 022s, connecting with the data link, getting targeting data. It says that the AShM (I'm guessing YJ-83) has target selection capability (which is something we weren't aware of before), fly around obstacles, long range strike, strong resistance to ECM. It mentioned that 5 missiles are launched in this attack that all hit targets.
Pointblank
Senior Member
Re: New Chinese UAV
1. Out of the range of the AK-630: 4km or better.
2. The sensors on the missiles types are quite accurate and capable; remember, most of them (Maverick, Hellfire) were originally designed to track and destroy armoured vehicles, which are much smaller than a FAC.
Remember, during Gulf War I, the Iraqi's tried to hide their tanks by burying them into the sand, with only the turret sticking out. They did this to reduce the vulnerability to their tanks via weapons fire and to help conceal them from air attack. This didn't work; the vehicles they partially buried stood out nice and clearly on a FLIR or targeting pod (say, the old Pave Tack system or LANTIRN) from medium altitude, and they were engaged with GBU-12 LGB's. End result was a lot of blown up armoured vehicles for the Iraqi's.
Now, back to your low observability FAC's; what does this mean?
FAC's generate heat. A hot blob on the ocean below is virtually unmistakable on a FLIR. The source of the heat can come from the sun heating the skin of the boat, or from the engines and exhaust. Even then, I've seen IR video footage of sailboats at night that are occasionally used by drug smugglers; even though there is no heat source per say on a sailboat; they stood out very clearly, with a clearly defined shape that said 'that's a sailboat'. That means, I can point a weapon at your ship, as I can clearly see it.
Edit: I suggest we go for a topic split as we have clearly gone off topic.
1. Out of the range of the AK-630: 4km or better.
2. The sensors on the missiles types are quite accurate and capable; remember, most of them (Maverick, Hellfire) were originally designed to track and destroy armoured vehicles, which are much smaller than a FAC.
Remember, during Gulf War I, the Iraqi's tried to hide their tanks by burying them into the sand, with only the turret sticking out. They did this to reduce the vulnerability to their tanks via weapons fire and to help conceal them from air attack. This didn't work; the vehicles they partially buried stood out nice and clearly on a FLIR or targeting pod (say, the old Pave Tack system or LANTIRN) from medium altitude, and they were engaged with GBU-12 LGB's. End result was a lot of blown up armoured vehicles for the Iraqi's.
Now, back to your low observability FAC's; what does this mean?
FAC's generate heat. A hot blob on the ocean below is virtually unmistakable on a FLIR. The source of the heat can come from the sun heating the skin of the boat, or from the engines and exhaust. Even then, I've seen IR video footage of sailboats at night that are occasionally used by drug smugglers; even though there is no heat source per say on a sailboat; they stood out very clearly, with a clearly defined shape that said 'that's a sailboat'. That means, I can point a weapon at your ship, as I can clearly see it.
Edit: I suggest we go for a topic split as we have clearly gone off topic.
Re: New Chinese UAV
btw, just to give you an idea of 022's low signature. It has to travel in civilian area with a radar deflector for fear of colliding into other ships (even in broad daylight). The digital camo patterns are done in a way to fool modern sensors from what I read. I uses the so called "mist of rain" to reduce visual and IR signature. It uses EO trackers for targeting rather than an active radar sensor. It has teeth like edges on all the windows to reduce reflection from that. USN has classified 022 as having very low radar signature and also very hard to track through sonar at low speed. The only thing that's really non-stealthy about it is the fact that the Chinese sensors generally don't have the most stealthy shaping.
Just thought of additional things. It uses diesel engines instead of gas turbine, I think that should help IR signature a little bit, the engine exhaust are between hulls point into the water I think, so that would reduce the IR signature even more compared to similar FACs. And let's not forget that PLAN can always mobilize a bunch of civilian fishing boats, so you have to distinguish it from boats with similar/slightly greater signatures.
why do you people have to do this to me, I moved it to the right thread.
btw, just to give you an idea of 022's low signature. It has to travel in civilian area with a radar deflector for fear of colliding into other ships (even in broad daylight). The digital camo patterns are done in a way to fool modern sensors from what I read. I uses the so called "mist of rain" to reduce visual and IR signature. It uses EO trackers for targeting rather than an active radar sensor. It has teeth like edges on all the windows to reduce reflection from that. USN has classified 022 as having very low radar signature and also very hard to track through sonar at low speed. The only thing that's really non-stealthy about it is the fact that the Chinese sensors generally don't have the most stealthy shaping.
Just thought of additional things. It uses diesel engines instead of gas turbine, I think that should help IR signature a little bit, the engine exhaust are between hulls point into the water I think, so that would reduce the IR signature even more compared to similar FACs. And let's not forget that PLAN can always mobilize a bunch of civilian fishing boats, so you have to distinguish it from boats with similar/slightly greater signatures.
Last edited: