Type 022 Missile Boat

Re: What is the probability that 022 is actually a landing craft?

1. Why would USN put her ships into the attack range of PLAAF? Attack Chinese land targets can be done by cruiser missiles. Close air protection and more can be done by land based aircrafts in Taiwan. Why risk your ships when they can do their jobs a few hundred kms further from the shore? You have to use your CVs to attack PRC's land targets?

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Wouldn't china wait till she has a operational aircraft carrier, to launch attacks against tiawan? If they had a carrier than it would be a lot harder for the USN to stay out of the attack range of chinas naval airforce.

Re: What is the probability that 022 is actually a landing craft?

scratch, I think ASW and AShW are totally different missions and the crew of 022 can't be divided into departments doing both of them like in other big ships. So I think this will have a strong requirement on its crew.

Re: What is the probability that 022 is actually a landing craft?

szbd said:

scratch, I think ASW and AShW are totally different missions and the crew of 022 can't be divided into departments doing both of them like in other big ships. So I think this will have a strong requirement on its crew.

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I don't pretend to have any expertise on crew training but if indeed two crews are needed for potentially two different missions, ASW or AShW; that might not be a bad thing at all. Training two crews per ship is making the most of your assets. And nothing to say crews trained in ASW or AShW can't be transferred to other vessels.

Re: What is the probability that 022 is actually a landing craft?

Another possibility, could it be a land attack vessel? Provide direct fire support for amphibious assult force use some kind of laser guided missiles? It's endurance, firepower and suvivebility are much better than an attack helicopter. It's quite ideal I think. it can acquire fire control information by its own sensor or laser beams from the landed troops. How many hell fire a 022 can carry?

Re: What is the probability that 022 is actually a landing craft?

joshuatree said:

Oh no doubt the 022 is a guided missile boat, primarily intended for coastal defense. But it does seem the boat can be pressed into secondary roles if needed. And I think if 022s were used in a conflict over Taiwan, I don't think they would just be used in the Strait but even on the east side of Taiwan to disrupt the enemy naval fleet activities. I don't see it being hard to modify for ASW duties. Air launched torpedos exist. Don't think it be that hard to swap the missiles out. Only thing you are missing is the sensor package which could be handled by a mothership. Or, who knows, why can't a 022 hull be modified to just simply carry sensors, like a seaborne AWAC so to speak to coordinate with a pack of 022s?

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The Russians once built an experimental ASW hydrofoil, Project 1141. Here's a picture:


Like most older Russian designs they crammed it full of weapons, including 2 x 4 RPK-9/MEDVEKA ASW missiles.

But eventually the Russians went back to conventional design for small ASW boats, and equipped them with MLRS and couple of torpedoes. You'd only find the RPK-9 on ASW Corvettes and Frigates now.

If you want a dedicated ASW platform, the Russians have MEDVEKA-2 for export in VLS configuration, suitable for ASW Corvettes with room for TAS. Perhaps we can start a thread on "ideal ASW boat/corvette", hehe.

Re: What is the probability that 022 is actually a landing craft?

As far as I know the main problem in ASW is detection, not having enough weapons to engage the contacts. A pack of ASW ships would only be useful if all had sensors, especially if the sensors were of the kind we could envisions in a cheap "nice to have" craft like the 022. One 022 with sensors and the other with just torpedoes is just a waste of assets, since it would not be able to acquire any sub contacts at extended ranges. The ideal ASW ship is still a corvette with a towed array, ASROC type launcher and two choppers (one using dipping sonar and the other engaging.)

When it comes to landing craft: are you supposed to beach it, or put it everyone into inflatables? This would be the most sub optimal design ever!

Missile boat are best inshore, in a kind of area denial role. They actually tend to moor them to cliffs with cam netting over (at least in our fjords), just darting out to make quick attacks. They (US) had a hell of a time finding our KNM Skjold when it was in the US some years ago. The Skjold should be about in the same class as the 022, though we like to think that is a bit more advanced and stealthy.

Re: What is the probability that 022 is actually a landing craft?

szbd said:

scratch, I think ASW and AShW are totally different missions and the crew of 022 can't be divided into departments doing both of them like in other big ships. So I think this will have a strong requirement on its crew.

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Sorry, I still don't really get it.
In your mind, as I understand it, would you mean to have one 022 the ability to change it's role; therefore being modular?
Because I would think, if you want to have an ASW version, you build dedicated AShW and ASW verions from the start and put one dedicated crew on them.
But yes, if every vesel is to fullfill both roles, two crews may be the option.

Land attack? Probably, if the area is somewhat secured. Meaning protection from friendly assets against threats.

Re: What is the probability that 022 is actually a landing craft?

Scratch said:

Sorry, I still don't really get it.
In your mind, as I understand it, would you mean to have one 022 the ability to change it's role; therefore being modular?

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Yeah that's what I mean. Infact that's what I thought you meant.

Land attack? Probably, if the area is somewhat secured. Meaning protection from friendly assets against threats.

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I didn't mean use 022 to attack the land by themselves. I'm supposing to use them as direct fire support in amphibious assult, when the area is not secured at all. I think 022 can play the role of attack helicopter, and play much better in this senario.

Re: What is the probability that 022 is actually a landing craft?

szbd said:

Yeah that's what I mean. Infact that's what I thought you meant.


I didn't mean use 022 to attack the land by themselves. I'm supposing to use them as direct fire support in amphibious assult, when the area is not secured at all. I think 022 can play the role of attack helicopter, and play much better in this senario.

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well, the issue here is that they are so far away from the action, how are they going to target? And if they want to support the amphibious assault in the manner that you mentionned, then they would have to be close to the shore, which means they are going to be targetted easily. It defeats the purpose of having them so fast, if they are just going to stay stationary beside the shore attempting to fire off ATGMs. There is a reason nobody does this. Now, if you want them to fire off LACMs, like I guess a sea launched version of KD-88, I think that's possible if they get the targetting data from aerial assets.

Re: What is the probability that 022 is actually a landing craft?

Scratch said:

Sorry, I still don't really get it.
In your mind, as I understand it, would you mean to have one 022 the ability to change it's role; therefore being modular?
Because I would think, if you want to have an ASW version, you build dedicated AShW and ASW verions from the start and put one dedicated crew on them.
But yes, if every vesel is to fullfill both roles, two crews may be the option.

Land attack? Probably, if the area is somewhat secured. Meaning protection from friendly assets against threats.

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Actually, that is what I meant when I first suggested ASW role for 022. As far as I know, no one has yet seen any 022s with weapons loaded in those two launch boxes. So the idea I was tossing around is, how hard would it be to put torpedoes in those boxes as opposed to AShMs as everyone is expecting? I don't think it would be hard, thus the idea of being modular. Then the discussion evolved and we started discussing the 022s would need eyes and ears to do ASW and thus the idea being tossed around of a specialized 022 that simply just carries sensors.

Another poster mentioned that wouldn't be sufficient for a successful ASW operation. To that, I can only say, maybe more than one 022 with sensors in the pack? Or perhaps we do indeed go back to having a mothership (frigate/destroyer/corvette) provide the eyes and ears?