Type 022 Missile Boat

Re: What is the probability that 022 is actually a landing craft?

The key to ASW is sonar...The type of catamaran solution of 022 doesen't allow hull nor bow mounted sonar and as there is no indications of small VDS in PLAN service aside the Thomson-Sintra SS 12 fitted in one pr. 031-I class subchaser, its hardly liable idea. Let 022 be just what it is...

Re: What is the probability that 022 is actually a landing craft?

The use of the 022 as any kind of landing craft is very far fetched.
It can barely accomodate its own crew and the supplies needed.
How could it hold troops with all their gear and supplies.

It is what it is, a high speed, nimble, stealthy surface craft designed to operated in "wolf-packs" from 4-8 supported by larger ships for targeting and aircraft and has the ability to serverly harass large formations of ships and probably draw attention away from larger destroyer's and/or submarines attacking the main threat, probably the US carrier.

It is also probably considered expendable. Cost is relatively cheap for
its capability.

Re: What is the probability that 022 is actually a landing craft?

tphuang said:

well, the issue here is that they are so far away from the action, how are they going to target? And if they want to support the amphibious assault in the manner that you mentionned, then they would have to be close to the shore, which means they are going to be targetted easily. It defeats the purpose of having them so fast, if they are just going to stay stationary beside the shore attempting to fire off ATGMs. There is a reason nobody does this. Now, if you want them to fire off LACMs, like I guess a sea launched version of KD-88, I think that's possible if they get the targetting data from aerial assets.

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You must have something to be targetted in an amphibious assault because you wanna get to the shore. What I mean is use 022 as a missile truck to take out the fixed targets within view range by direct aimming guided missiles. Just like what an attack helicopter usually do. At least they should be much better than rockets mounted on ships.

Re: What is the probability that 022 is actually a landing craft?

szbd said:

You must have something to be targetted in an amphibious assault because you wanna get to the shore. What I mean is use 022 as a missile truck to take out the fixed targets within view range by direct aimming guided missiles. Just like what an attack helicopter usually do. At least they should be much better than rockets mounted on ships.

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But in this usage of 022s, don't you think attack helicopters from the other side will annihilate the 022s? Obviously, this is all relating to a Taiwan scenario and Taiwan will be procuring 30 Apaches soon.

Re: What is the probability that 022 is actually a landing craft?

Of course 022s can be attacked. But the assault crafts are in more danger and the actual sucess of the assault is depend on them yet they have barely any ability to take out land targets when they are in the water. There must be something to provide fire support to them and I think 022 is a good choice. I'm not talking about a super weapon that can eliminated ROCA targets at shore without any lost.

And I don't think helicopters is an important issue. the 630 CIWS is a very good anti helicopter weapon. Even the 12.7mm MGs of the amphibious tanks can pose a big threat to them.

Re: What is the probability that 022 is actually a landing craft?

szbd said:

You must have something to be targetted in an amphibious assault because you wanna get to the shore. What I mean is use 022 as a missile truck to take out the fixed targets within view range by direct aimming guided missiles. Just like what an attack helicopter usually do. At least they should be much better than rockets mounted on ships.

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do you know what the effective range of ATGMs are and how close 022 have to park themselves next to the beach? Again, the other issue remains, what are they going to use to target the tanks? Attack Helos have their LRF, millimetre wave radar, FLIR and TV cam, what does Type 22 have that can track tanks?

Of course 022s can be attacked. But the assault crafts are in more danger and the actual sucess of the assault is depend on them yet they have barely any ability to take out land targets when they are in the water. There must be something to provide fire support to them and I think 022 is a good choice. I'm not talking about a super weapon that can eliminated ROCA targets at shore without any lost.

And I don't think helicopters is an important issue. the 630 CIWS is a very good anti helicopter weapon. Even the 12.7mm MGs of the amphibious tanks can pose a big threat to them.

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I certainly don't want to see 022 parked beside a beach and then have helicopters carrying anti-ship missiles coming at them or having land based Anti-ship missiles targetting them. They will get destroyed.

Re: What is the probability that 022 is actually a landing craft?

Nobody want 022s to be sunk. But what about those landing craft and AAVs? They can be slaughtered by anti tank missiles and 30mm auto guns. We can't count on air strike to destroy those weapons because they will hide in well camouflaged batteries and will not give out their positions until firing. At this time we need something to take care of them immediately, that is some direct aimming weapon from the sea. I'm supposing 022 can use some kind missile like hell fire to shoot those targets 5-10km away from the shore.

And I said fixed targets several times, why you brought up tanks?

Re: What is the probability that 022 is actually a landing craft?

szbd said:

Nobody want 022s to be sunk. But what about those landing craft and AAVs? They can be slaughtered by anti tank missiles and 30mm auto guns. We can't count on air strike to destroy those weapons because they will hide in well camouflaged batteries and will not give out their positions until firing. At this time we need something to take care of them immediately, that is some direct aimming weapon from the sea. I'm supposing 022 can use some kind missile like hell fire to shoot those targets 5-10km away from the shore.

And I said fixed targets several times, why you brought up tanks?

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When push comes to shove, you can definitely use the 022 to attack land targets but just how many hellfires do you think one 022 can carry? Unlike having the 022 hunt for ships or maybe subs, I think the rate of hellfire launches will be greater given number of land targets in an amphibious attack. Just don't see the 022 having the stamina for that.

Regarding protecting your landing craft, why not simply rig a barge with some armor, a datalink, and a ton of hellfires at your disposal?

Re: What is the probability that 022 is actually a landing craft?

As I remembered, a hell fire is about 1.2m long and 0.2m in diameter. I think there's no problem for a 022 to carry hundreds of them. For the barge, it's putting all of your egg in the same bucket. Once it sank, you got no hell fires. Also it's much much more vulnerable to AShW missiles than 022. When a 022 stay behind the landing crafts, it's very unlikely to be targeted because it has a much smaller radar signature than those crafts. But for a barge, it's obviously the top priority for AShW force.

Re: What is the probability that 022 is actually a landing craft?

szbd said:

Nobody want 022s to be sunk. But what about those landing craft and AAVs? They can be slaughtered by anti tank missiles and 30mm auto guns. We can't count on air strike to destroy those weapons because they will hide in well camouflaged batteries and will not give out their positions until firing. At this time we need something to take care of them immediately, that is some direct aimming weapon from the sea. I'm supposing 022 can use some kind missile like hell fire to shoot those targets 5-10km away from the shore.

And I said fixed targets several times, why you brought up tanks?

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because, if it's a fixed target, you would use your KD-88 or other LACMs launched by aircraft. Why use 022 for this? You can use your LGBs to attack these batteries. That's what PGMs are for. Why do you want to use ATGMs to do this just completely baffles me.

As I remembered, a hell fire is about 1.2m long and 0.2m in diameter. I think there's no problem for a 022 to carry hundreds of them. For the barge, it's putting all of your egg in the same bucket. Once it sank, you got no hell fires. Also it's much much more vulnerable to AShW missiles than 022. When a 022 stay behind the landing crafts, it's very unlikely to be targeted because it has a much smaller radar signature than those crafts. But for a barge, it's obviously the top priority for AShW force.

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you are also not going to park LPDs right next to the beach. That's asking for trouble