Turkey Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Atomicfrog · Nov 24, 2022

sequ said:
The moment when the front and mid-fuselages were joined together:

So they will put GEf110 first for testing and after a TAEC developed engine when ready. Will they sort out the f110 from their f-16 stockpiles ?

Do they still plan to do some kind of ej200 derivative or based engine or it's all in the bin and they will start from scratch ? The size of EJ200 and F110 are so different... even if the upgrade ej200 is envisionned to be in the same thrust bracket if f110, the plane would need to be new. The project look awesome, a lot of informations still to be found.

Abominable · Nov 24, 2022

siegecrossbow said:
They seriously need a EJ-200 class engine in Kizielma. Airframe’s advantage in high velocity regime can’t be exploited unless there is a sufficiently powerful engine to match. I don’t know why they don’t go for EJ-200 when relations are good with the UK.

I think a French engine would be an obvious western alternative.

They care a lot less about who they sell military equipment to than America. If America sanctions Turkey, you can bet the UK will as well.

sequ · Nov 24, 2022

Atomicfrog said:
So they will put GEf110 first for testing and after a TAEC developed engine when ready. Will they sort out the f110 from their f-16 stockpiles ?

Do they still plan to do some kind of ej200 derivative or based engine or it's all in the bin and they will start from scratch ? The size of EJ200 and F110 are so different... even if the upgrade ej200 is envisionned to be in the same thrust bracket if f110, the plane would need to be new. The project look awesome, a lot of informations still to be found.

They have ordered a bunch of F110-GE-129E's to be specific. Not enough to cover their needs to 2030 but they'll order more in the mean time if need be.

The indigenous engine development contract has still not been (as)signed to anyone but TRMotor has started the development in 2018. TEI is developing what could be an intermediate engine (TF6000) and is developing all the crucial materials needed for a turbofan engine. It's CEO said they could develop a 5th gen engine with all the bells and whistles in 10-15 years time.

And then there is the combined Kale+RR bid in the form of TAEC. Negotiations with SSB are still continuing.

In the end, one major designer will be assigned and the other two engine manufacturers wil also get a piece of the turbofan pie.

gelgoog · Nov 24, 2022

Abominable said:
I think a French engine would be an obvious western alternative.
They care a lot less about who they sell military equipment to than America. If America sanctions Turkey, you can bet the UK will as well.

M88 engine is kind of weak. Not that much power.
The French stopped the Mistral sale to Russia after 2014 as well. The idea they are not vulnerable to US pressure is shortsighted I think.

sequ said:
They have ordered a bunch of F110-GE-129E's to be specific. Not enough to cover their needs to 2030 but they'll order more in the mean time if need be.

Well, Putin said the Turks were welcome to get assistance from Russia to their stealth fighter program. So in the worst case they can get AL-31 engines. The later types are not worse in performance than the F110 or EJ200. Who knows if Izd. 30. comes out maybe even they can even get the AL-41.

sequ said:
The indigenous engine development contract has still not been (as)signed to anyone but TRMotor has started the development in 2018. TEI is developing what could be an intermediate engine (TF6000) and is developing all the crucial materials needed for a turbofan engine. It's CEO said they could develop a 5th gen engine with all the bells and whistles in 10-15 years time.

Uh. Right. Tell that to the Japanese who have been working on their own engine for yonks.

sequ · Nov 24, 2022

delete

*Not going to bother with bad faith arguments

CasualObserver · Nov 24, 2022

Atomicfrog said:
So they will put GEf110 first for testing and after a TAEC developed engine when ready. Will they sort out the f110 from their f-16 stockpiles ?

Do they still plan to do some kind of ej200 derivative or based engine or it's all in the bin and they will start from scratch ? The size of EJ200 and F110 are so different... even if the upgrade ej200 is envisionned to be in the same thrust bracket if f110, the plane would need to be new.

EJ200 was planned up until 2018, at the beginning of that year the requirements were changed to a bigger air superiority fighter and then a couple of months later the US kicked Turkey out of the JSF programme; as a result the design was changed for a more balanced multirole fighter. So EJ200 or a similar class engine wouldn't be sufficient anymore. Only an engine of a 35000 lbf class could support the airframe.

Atomicfrog · Nov 24, 2022

CasualObserver said:
EJ200 was planned up until 2018, at the beginning of that year the requirements were changed to a bigger air superiority fighter and then a couple of months later the US kicked Turkey out of the JSF programme; as a result the design was changed for a more balanced multirole fighter. So EJ200 or a similar class engine wouldn't be sufficient anymore. Only an engine of a 35000 lbf class could support the airframe.

So they will need to sort things out to replace f110 with something better that fit in the hole. All stuff coming from the US have a big axe ready to break contract anytime... Having some technology transfer would still be nice from someone in the EU like Safran or Eurojet. Indian failed miserably with the Kaveri, hoping that Turkey will sort his indigenous engine better.

CasualObserver · Nov 24, 2022

Atomicfrog said:
So they will need to sort things out to replace f110 with something better that fit in the hole. All stuff coming from the US have a big axe ready to break contract anytime... Having some technology transfer would still be nice from someone in the EU like Safran or Eurojet. Indian failed miserably with the Kaveri, hoping that Turkey will sort his indigenous engine better.

Well that's the thing, TEI or other Turkish manufacturers are very experienced and are more up to date with modern standards, plus they've proven themselves with the production of many critical parts thanks to their involvement in many international projects.

Also in TEI's case, they are proven to be able to go from the drawing board to the prototype very quickly.

Anyway, currently multiple parties are working on the engine and one of them is going to be selected as the main contractor while the rest are going to be subcontractors. So in this way, all of the capacity will be used and the possibility of the engine actually coming to fruition will increase.

sunnymaxi · Nov 24, 2022

sequ said:
They have ordered a bunch of F110-GE-129E's to be specific. Not enough to cover their needs to 2030 but they'll order more in the mean time if need be.

The indigenous engine development contract has still not been (as)signed to anyone but TRMotor has started the development in 2018. TEI is developing what could be an intermediate engine (TF6000) and is developing all the crucial materials needed for a turbofan engine. It's CEO said they could develop a 5th gen engine with all the bells and whistles in 10-15 years time.

And then there is the combined Kale+RR bid in the form of TAEC. Negotiations with SSB are still continuing.

In the end, one major designer will be assigned and the other two engine manufacturers wil also get a piece of the turbofan pie.

just saw on twitter. some reliable Turkish accounts posted this

Turkish Minister says Turkiye has acquired the required technology to produce engines for the TFX up to 35,000 lbf each. means partnership with RR ?

CasualObserver · Nov 24, 2022

sunnymaxi said:
just saw on twitter. some reliable Turkish accounts posted this

Turkish Minister says Turkiye has acquired the required technology to produce engines for the TFX up to 35,000 lbf each. means partnership with RR ?

No, that's not it. That was the statement of the head of TEI which is offering to design and produce the engine 100% in house without any foreign help, and although it wouldn't be easy, I think they can pull it off on time.

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