Turkey Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

sequ said:

You should lurk more before posting.

Click to expand...

Unwarranted. You should understand Turbofans before posting your fantasies here.

sequ said:

If they develop a 6000lb class turbofan, they can add an afterburner and get up to 10k lb thrust. If they develop a 12k-13k lb thrust turbofan engine they can get 18k-20k with an afterburner. That's just 2 entirely different engines with or without added afterburner covering the 6k to 20k thrust range. With an FJ-44 equivalent they can cover the 2k-4k lb range leaving virtually no gap whatsoever.

In the end they would need to develop just 3 different turbofan engines to have a whole range of 2k to 20k lb thrust to power Turkish manned and unmanned aircraft.

Click to expand...

None of the things you mention have materialized. You insist they are working on it but then make up entire thrust figures.

What more, you gave the option of "Adding " afterburners almost as if it's easy done. Few things grounded in reality and fewer things ever having a chance of materializing.

Just like your instance that Turkey should manufacture F16 without US permission. Just like that, out of the blue.

I don't think TEI manufacturers Hot section of these engines. And SC mass production? Many components vital to an engine isn't listed above. Maybe the infographics is incomplete?

Interesting to note that Turkey's role in manufacturing F110 seem to be one on the same level as India's role in manufacturing AL-31 series for its Su30MKI.

Yet, somehow, some think Turkey can build a F16 if US doesn't cooperate.

The ignore function is such a handy tool

Lifted this infographic from another forum.

The likely direction of Turkish Aviation power plant development, as I understand.

1. Development of TS1400 turboshaft engine for the Gokbey helicopter. It has not yet equipped and seem to be in late stage of development by TEI.

2. As the infographic suggests, many critical technologies are being indegenized / developed for that Turboshaft engine.

3. A Turbofan engine seems to be in development, named TF6000. Some say it's rated 6kN (can't doubt it). Developed by TEI too.

4. TRMotors, set up for High performance Turbofans. It's entrusted with developing the Turbofans for TFX fighter jet. TRMotors and TEI are different entities.

The project is in conceptual phase as of 2021.

5. Why TRMotors and TEI are separate is not exactly known. But TEI ( being the experienced entity) is a JV of Turkish MIC with GE of USA.

TRMotors, on the other hand, is completely owned by Turkish Defence industries. Very interesting.

SSB Will Open Tender Soon for Phase-II Phase of MMU/TF-X Engine Development Project!

In order to determine the Main Contractor for the Phase-II studies, which is the second phase in the development process of the new generation original turbofan engine that will power the National Combat Aircraft (MMU/TF-X) designed to meet the operational needs of the Turkish Air Force between 2030 and 2070. A tender will be opened by the Defense Industry Presidency (SSB) in the coming days. According to the information I have received, Kale and TEI Firms will be able to bid for the Phase-II tender of the MMU/TF-X Engine Development Project, in addition to TRMotor Power Systems (TR-M), which carries out Phase-I studies.



According to the information I got from a source close to the project, the aim of the tender is to find the best solution rather than competing with the companies. First of all, it will be looked at which company will propose the best solution, and then the task will be shared between the three companies that submitted the offer. When Phase-II studies are completed, a tender will be issued for Phase-III. The project will be implemented in phases. According to the information I have received, TRMotor will submit its bid to the tender together with an engine OEM company. I'm guessing that this company is Ukrainian Ivchenko Progress, who is collaborating on MMU original engine works and is currently the technical support provider in the development of Auxiliary Power Unit (APU - Auxiliary Power Unit) and Air Turbine Start System (ATSS - Air Turbine Start System) solutions.


I had previously received information from a source close to the MMU/TF-X Project that TRMotor and Ivchenko Progress will collaborate on the development of a new engine called TF-141 as part of the next generation engine requirement for the MMU/TF-X. Ivchenko Progress representative, whom I had the opportunity to meet during the SAHA Expo 2021 Defense, Aerospace Industry Fair, stated that they proposed the AI-9500 Turbofan Engine based on the AI-322F engine within the scope of the MMU/TF-X Engine Development Project. However, a TRMotor representative, whose opinions I consulted, stated that the proposal for the AI-9500F with a thrust capacity of 9,500kgf (approximately 21,000lbf) is no longer on the agenda, and that this engine, designed 10 years ago, is an old proposal. The AI-9500F was previously proposed as a co-development option for the HAL Tejas LCA Mk1A Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) during the Aero India 2009 Exhibition, but chose the GE product F404-GE-IN20 Turbofan Engine for its Indian needs. Having supplied approximately 45 engines for the first pack of 40 aircraft, HAL signed a US$716 Million contract with GE Aviation in August 2021 to supply 99 F404-GE-IN20 Engines for an additional 83 LCA Mk1 Aircraft.

As far as I know, on April 20, 2017, Defense Industry Technologies (SSTEK) A.Ş. TRMotor, founded by SSTEK A.Ş and currently owned by SSTEK A.Ş and TUSAŞ, is positioned like a top mind in the process of designing and developing a new generation engine in order to meet Turkey's military and civil aircraft engine needs, especially the MMU/TF-X Program. and to coordinate the existing capabilities in the sector in line with this goal (such as company X in the hot section, company Y in charge of the cold section). According to the information I have obtained, the thrust power has also been clarified within the scope of Phase-I, where the Conceptual Design studies of the new generation original turbofan engine to be developed for the MMU/TF-X Aircraft are carried out. However, this information cannot be shared with the public at the moment. The total weight of the engine is calculated as approximately 2 tons. The original turbofan engine, which will be designed in accordance with the requirements of the 5th generation engine, will also have 'supercruise' and 'stealth' features.

The weight of the 29,000lb class F110-GE-129 Engine is given as 1,805kg, while the weight of the 32,000lb class F110-GE-132 Engine is given as 1,837kg. The thrust of the F110-GE-132 Engine, which is open to growth, can be increased up to 36,000lb with a 10% growth to be achieved thanks to the technological improvements to be made. Therefore, I expect the MMU/TF-X Engine to be a 5th generation engine that will be developed over the F110 Engine, which Turkey has been carrying out parts production, final assembly and testing activities for many years and is well known.




Very good move to involve all the turbine engine developers and producers in Turkey in the design and development of the indigenous turbofan engine.

sequ said:

SSB Will Open Tender Soon for Phase-II Phase of MMU/TF-X Engine Development Project!

In order to determine the Main Contractor for the Phase-II studies, which is the second phase in the development process of the new generation original turbofan engine that will power the National Combat Aircraft (MMU/TF-X) designed to meet the operational needs of the Turkish Air Force between 2030 and 2070. A tender will be opened by the Defense Industry Presidency (SSB) in the coming days. According to the information I have received, Kale and TEI Firms will be able to bid for the Phase-II tender of the MMU/TF-X Engine Development Project, in addition to TRMotor Power Systems (TR-M), which carries out Phase-I studies.

According to the information I got from a source close to the project, the aim of the tender is to find the best solution rather than competing with the companies. First of all, it will be looked at which company will propose the best solution, and then the task will be shared between the three companies that submitted the offer. When Phase-II studies are completed, a tender will be issued for Phase-III. The project will be implemented in phases. According to the information I have received, TRMotor will submit its bid to the tender together with an engine OEM company. I'm guessing that this company is Ukrainian Ivchenko Progress, who is collaborating on MMU original engine works and is currently the technical support provider in the development of Auxiliary Power Unit (APU - Auxiliary Power Unit) and Air Turbine Start System (ATSS - Air Turbine Start System) solutions.

I had previously received information from a source close to the MMU/TF-X Project that TRMotor and Ivchenko Progress will collaborate on the development of a new engine called TF-141 as part of the next generation engine requirement for the MMU/TF-X. Ivchenko Progress representative, whom I had the opportunity to meet during the SAHA Expo 2021 Defense, Aerospace Industry Fair, stated that they proposed the AI-9500 Turbofan Engine based on the AI-322F engine within the scope of the MMU/TF-X Engine Development Project. However, a TRMotor representative, whose opinions I consulted, stated that the proposal for the AI-9500F with a thrust capacity of 9,500kgf (approximately 21,000lbf) is no longer on the agenda, and that this engine, designed 10 years ago, is an old proposal. The AI-9500F was previously proposed as a co-development option for the HAL Tejas LCA Mk1A Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) during the Aero India 2009 Exhibition, but chose the GE product F404-GE-IN20 Turbofan Engine for its Indian needs. Having supplied approximately 45 engines for the first pack of 40 aircraft, HAL signed a US$716 Million contract with GE Aviation in August 2021 to supply 99 F404-GE-IN20 Engines for an additional 83 LCA Mk1 Aircraft.

As far as I know, on April 20, 2017, Defense Industry Technologies (SSTEK) A.Ş. TRMotor, founded by SSTEK A.Ş and currently owned by SSTEK A.Ş and TUSAŞ, is positioned like a top mind in the process of designing and developing a new generation engine in order to meet Turkey's military and civil aircraft engine needs, especially the MMU/TF-X Program. and to coordinate the existing capabilities in the sector in line with this goal (such as company X in the hot section, company Y in charge of the cold section). According to the information I have obtained, the thrust power has also been clarified within the scope of Phase-I, where the Conceptual Design studies of the new generation original turbofan engine to be developed for the MMU/TF-X Aircraft are carried out. However, this information cannot be shared with the public at the moment. The total weight of the engine is calculated as approximately 2 tons. The original turbofan engine, which will be designed in accordance with the requirements of the 5th generation engine, will also have 'supercruise' and 'stealth' features.

The weight of the 29,000lb class F110-GE-129 Engine is given as 1,805kg, while the weight of the 32,000lb class F110-GE-132 Engine is given as 1,837kg. The thrust of the F110-GE-132 Engine, which is open to growth, can be increased up to 36,000lb with a 10% growth to be achieved thanks to the technological improvements to be made. Therefore, I expect the MMU/TF-X Engine to be a 5th generation engine that will be developed over the F110 Engine, which Turkey has been carrying out parts production, final assembly and testing activities for many years and is well known.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Very good move to involve all the turbine engine developers and producers in Turkey in the design and development of the indigenous turbofan engine.

Click to expand...

Article rife with speculations and even fantasies. One has to merely go to other forums where the discussions are much sober

1. TRMotors collaboration with Ukraine (IvPr) seem to be limited to development of APU and electricity generator.

2. TRMotors has pledged the two technologies mentioned above towards an engine project ( under deliberation between SSB, Kale Group) with Rolls Royce.

3. The Turkish agency that contributes to building F110 is TEI, itself being a JV of GE (USA) and Turkish Aerospace industries. Simply put, they can't take F110 engine and "develop over" it.What more, TEI doesn't manufacture the entire engine and it's components from raw material stage.

Ignoring that critical detail, any technology derived from F110 that TEI uses, ignoring GE Intellectual Property, will jeopardize TEI and its international business. US is notorious for holding its IP close to heart.

4. There are no confirmation of TF-141 engines or a collaboration with Ukraine to develop one. Ukraine has no experience in designing an engine in the same class as F110 let alone an engine for a fifth generation fighter. There is a reason why India didn't progress with Ukraine. Chances of a successful program are slim.

Navantia representative, Gorge Monedero, who made a presentation at the 10th Naval Systems Seminar, expressed their willingness to work together (consultancy) on projects including submarines and combat platforms.




No chance to work on the TF2000 though. That is a done deal but a larger LHD and consultancy for the MILDEN project is definitively in the works.

sequ said:

SSB Will Open Tender Soon for Phase-II Phase of MMU/TF-X Engine Development Project!

In order to determine the Main Contractor for the Phase-II studies, which is the second phase in the development process of the new generation original turbofan engine that will power the National Combat Aircraft (MMU/TF-X) designed to meet the operational needs of the Turkish Air Force between 2030 and 2070. A tender will be opened by the Defense Industry Presidency (SSB) in the coming days. According to the information I have received, Kale and TEI Firms will be able to bid for the Phase-II tender of the MMU/TF-X Engine Development Project, in addition to TRMotor Power Systems (TR-M), which carries out Phase-I studies.

According to the information I got from a source close to the project, the aim of the tender is to find the best solution rather than competing with the companies. First of all, it will be looked at which company will propose the best solution, and then the task will be shared between the three companies that submitted the offer. When Phase-II studies are completed, a tender will be issued for Phase-III. The project will be implemented in phases. According to the information I have received, TRMotor will submit its bid to the tender together with an engine OEM company. I'm guessing that this company is Ukrainian Ivchenko Progress, who is collaborating on MMU original engine works and is currently the technical support provider in the development of Auxiliary Power Unit (APU - Auxiliary Power Unit) and Air Turbine Start System (ATSS - Air Turbine Start System) solutions.

I had previously received information from a source close to the MMU/TF-X Project that TRMotor and Ivchenko Progress will collaborate on the development of a new engine called TF-141 as part of the next generation engine requirement for the MMU/TF-X. Ivchenko Progress representative, whom I had the opportunity to meet during the SAHA Expo 2021 Defense, Aerospace Industry Fair, stated that they proposed the AI-9500 Turbofan Engine based on the AI-322F engine within the scope of the MMU/TF-X Engine Development Project. However, a TRMotor representative, whose opinions I consulted, stated that the proposal for the AI-9500F with a thrust capacity of 9,500kgf (approximately 21,000lbf) is no longer on the agenda, and that this engine, designed 10 years ago, is an old proposal. The AI-9500F was previously proposed as a co-development option for the HAL Tejas LCA Mk1A Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) during the Aero India 2009 Exhibition, but chose the GE product F404-GE-IN20 Turbofan Engine for its Indian needs. Having supplied approximately 45 engines for the first pack of 40 aircraft, HAL signed a US$716 Million contract with GE Aviation in August 2021 to supply 99 F404-GE-IN20 Engines for an additional 83 LCA Mk1 Aircraft.

As far as I know, on April 20, 2017, Defense Industry Technologies (SSTEK) A.Ş. TRMotor, founded by SSTEK A.Ş and currently owned by SSTEK A.Ş and TUSAŞ, is positioned like a top mind in the process of designing and developing a new generation engine in order to meet Turkey's military and civil aircraft engine needs, especially the MMU/TF-X Program. and to coordinate the existing capabilities in the sector in line with this goal (such as company X in the hot section, company Y in charge of the cold section). According to the information I have obtained, the thrust power has also been clarified within the scope of Phase-I, where the Conceptual Design studies of the new generation original turbofan engine to be developed for the MMU/TF-X Aircraft are carried out. However, this information cannot be shared with the public at the moment. The total weight of the engine is calculated as approximately 2 tons. The original turbofan engine, which will be designed in accordance with the requirements of the 5th generation engine, will also have 'supercruise' and 'stealth' features.

The weight of the 29,000lb class F110-GE-129 Engine is given as 1,805kg, while the weight of the 32,000lb class F110-GE-132 Engine is given as 1,837kg. The thrust of the F110-GE-132 Engine, which is open to growth, can be increased up to 36,000lb with a 10% growth to be achieved thanks to the technological improvements to be made. Therefore, I expect the MMU/TF-X Engine to be a 5th generation engine that will be developed over the F110 Engine, which Turkey has been carrying out parts production, final assembly and testing activities for many years and is well known.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Very good move to involve all the turbine engine developers and producers in Turkey in the design and development of the indigenous turbofan engine.

Click to expand...

In relation to this article from yesterday, that same evening the CEO of TEI said in a television interview that TEI is able to develop any engine including the TF-X engine, thus indicating that TEI is ready for Phase II of the engine development project.

Some materials used in the TS1400 engine:

sequ said:

In relation to this article from yesterday, that same evening the CEO of TEI said in a television interview that TEI is able to develop any engine including the TF-X engine, thus indicating that TEI is ready for Phase II of the engine development project.

Some materials used in the TS1400 engine:

Click to expand...

Hot section components for a turboshaft can't be scaled to a turbofan engine of F110 caliber. No, TEI is not able to develop ANY engine especially one for a fifth generation fighter.

Turkey is actively holding talks with Rolls Royce for a powerplant. If that doesn't materialize, they would have to seek F110 engines from GE ( very tricky situation).

According to Yeni Safak, Turkey is looking for a 50000 ton carrier with 1800 crewmembers:

The Presidency of Defense Industries, which rolled up its sleeves after TCG Anadolu, also included a second more comprehensive ship announced by President Erdoğan on its agenda. The ship, which is planned to be larger than TCG Anadolu, is envisaged to be in a format to accommodate several types of UAVs with jet engines and propellers. It is stated that the ship will have a displacement of close to 50 thousand tons and a capacity of 1800 personnel. According to the information obtained; The Turkish Type Aircraft Carrier will have the infrastructure suitable for flying platforms such as the F-35 B that can take off with short take-off - vertical landing as well as catapult.