Trump 2.0 official thread

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Ah thank you. Had actually forgotten example #223 of Canada being US puppet.

See, that's what I am talking. Xi doesn't give a shit, you play tough act now, he will politely talk to you, smile and wave, but bet you when he opens the tv nowadays and sees US wanting to annex Canada and Trudeau panicking, he has a huge grin on his face.

These are characteristics of a true Sigma male. Trump wants to imitate this kind of leadership but instead comes across as the spoiled manchild that he is.

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Lethe

Captain
I've long been critical of how Washington and other NATO governments walked Ukraine down the path to war and have since
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to discourage peace negotiations. And there is a certain satisfaction to be derived from Trump revealing the vast chasm that exists between European rhetoric and actions and dismissing them as irrelevant (as Zelensky himself did
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). Yet this war has been a catastrophe for Ukraine and its people, and to see things further unravel in such an undignified fashion brings no satisfaction either. These are ugly times.
 
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Serb

Junior Member
Registered Member
It's a humiliation but it's Ukraine that is getting wrecked daily not America.

Yeah, they are the ones wrecked daily but that's because America practically pushed them into this war. I would also feel indignant if I were Zelensky, he and his country could've been in a much better situation had the US not prevented them from reaching any kind of deals with Russia. They would have lived truly like kings compared to now, including Zelensky, if they joined the Russian side, and the US didn't prevent them while also giving them false promises. So, it's all that harder to swallow. Not to mention that Trump was pretty bent on giving them to Putin on a silver platter from the beginning. All that "RaRe EaRtH", is a sham, there is no such thing in reality - all Trump media clown theatrics, do some research on that. So, even if it was 'signed', it doesn't mean anything.

So when you come into the halls of power, the hall of the current supreme superpower in this planet, in America, you better show some respect and good attitude.

Zelensky showed respect, but they were beforehand preparing this meeting to humiliate Zelensky, provoking him, and to have an excuse for abandoning him later as part of surrender terms that the Trump's govt had to give Putin.

It would be the same had he not done anything, but now he at least appeared as some sort of brave person, instead of just a mindless puppet vassal, now at least he appeared as some kind of Ukrainian patriot to his people and the future.

Also, I think you meant actual *supapowa. If they, the US, were truly a "supreme superpower" they would not be abandoning their main touted darlings/allies now in front of the whole world to see because they were objectively defeated by Russia, which is at most a great power.

Trump is an idiot yes, Trump however is also President of the most powerful, in power projection terms, country in Earth.

Power projection is not the outdated concept of deploying your mostly Cold War-era museum navy on pointless tours of some kind, which can no longer even intimidate someone like the Houthis objectively, to aimlessly waste taxpayer money (trillions of deficits actually tbh) across the globe for no reason whatsoever. If some of your navy’s average age is older than the parents of the sailors crewing it, it’s not power projection. It’s barely staying afloat on past achievements. Real "power projection" is what you will see China do to collapse the US soon if it comes to that - no imports from China = hyper, hyper, inflation, and collapse of any country on this earth, that is true power. China's endless dominance in trade and global infrastructure and connectivity is that concept for the 21st century.

That's the difference between Zelensky and Macron/Starmer. They went with the appropriate attitude but still held their ground, they didn't give in. Contrast that with Zelensky who brought a wrecking ball and tried to embarrass (not that he needs any help tbh..) Trump in front of the entire American people.

No, it was Vance, Trump, and all those reporters, laughing and pointing at Zelensky and embarrassing him in front of the whole world and the Ukrainian people. I think that Zelensky simply understands that this administration abandoned him, they lost the war, so why not try to appear as a 'hero' one last time, before retiring somewhere? He maybe went there to judge the atmosphere as the last shot and saw all I'm describing.

If you know Trump, you know he will hold a big grudge against Zelensky. IMO he is a goner. Next on the line is that former commander I think who lives in Britain, he will be the one who will replace him

That's true, but this is already been decided beforehand, and not because of Trump, but because Putin, as the winner, demanded this.

You are actually playing into Trump's and his team's stupid game of now having to abandon Ukraine due to them being "ungrateful".

No, my friend, it is way simpler. The US is deep underwater in terms of everything and they were defeated by Russia, they don't have any capacity on that left now.

Also, not to confuse, I'm not supporting Zelensky, I'm just stating objective facts. Also, it was funny to me how he clapped back to this fake supapowa in their own office.

But, I also acknowledge that they had ultra-provoked first. His only mistake is going there to try and salvage his position in the first place.
 
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Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
Yeah, they are the ones wrecked daily but that's because America practically pushed them into this war. I would also feel indignant if I were Zelensky, he and his country could've been in a much better situation had the US not prevented them from reaching any kind of deals with Russia. They would have lived truly like kings compared to now, including Zelensky, if they joined the Russian side, and the US didn't prevent them while also giving them false promises. So, it's all that harder to swallow. Not to mention that Trump was pretty bent on giving them to Putin on a silver platter from the beginning. All that "RaRe EaRtH", is a sham, there is no such thing. Even if it was 'signed', it doesn't mean anything.
Ofc it's all a sham. We all know that Ukraine got pushed for war but can't say it openly because some people don't like it lol

Not Trump's fault that Zelensky drank his own kool-aid about great America support and war for liberty and freedom or whatever bs they fed him. It's not like Kissinger himself didn't say how dangerous it is, to be a US ally..
Zelensky showed respect, but they were beforehand preparing this meeting to humiliate Zelensky, provoking him, and to have an excuse for abandoning him later as part of surrender terms that the Trump's govt had to give Putin.

It would be the same had he not done anything, but now he at least appeared as some sort of brave person, instead of just a mindless puppet vassal, now at least he appeared as some kind of Ukrainian patriot to his people and the future.

Also, I think you meant supreme *supapowa. If they, the US, were truly a "supreme superpower" they would not be abandoning their main touted darlings/allies now in front of the whole world to see because they were objectively defeated by Russia, which is at most a great power.
Doesn't matter what they have planned, best you can do in that case is not give any excuse so at least the whole world would plainly see Trump's rogue tactics.

As for supreme maybe it was a bit too much indeed, lets say the first among the two superpowers

No, it was Vance, Trump, and all those reporters, laughing and pointing at Zelensky and embarrassing him in front of the whole world and the Ukrainian people. I think that Zelensky simply understands that this administration abandoned him, they lost the war, so why not try to appear as a 'hero' one last time, before retiring somewhere?
No, you still want to retain your calm. Don't forget that this is a global chessboard. Imagine valued Asian US allies watching this. Imagine plain bullying. At least Zelensky could utilize that aspect to promote his agenda. The more unprovocative he is the better his chances because if Asian players see such blatant abandonment they would all (try to) jump ship

In any case, his options are not the best, that's for sure

That's true, but this is already been decided beforehand, and not because of Trump, but because Putin, as the winner, demanded this.

You are actually playing into Trump's and his team's stupid game of now having to abandon Ukraine due to them being "ungrateful".

No, my friend, it is way simpler. The US is deep underwater in terms of everything and they were defeated by Russia, they don't have any capacity on that left now.

Also, not to confuse, I'm not supporting Zelensky, I'm just stating objective facts. Also, it was funny to me how he clapped back to this fake supapowa in their own office.

But, I also acknowledge that they are ultra-provoked first. His only mistake is going there to try and salvage his position in the first place.
Agent Krasnov doesn't give two fs about Ukraine. Best Zelensky could have done is quickly sign the deal and pray for the best because then whole world would expect some sort of US protection for such a trade. Nowadays, Zelensky has to understand that the only thing keeping Ukraine on the game is the bad reputational costs that US would incur if it abandoned Ukraine

So the more he looks, and barks like a US dog the more the deterrence for the US to abandon it. It's a complex operation though and I have zero belief that Zelensky could pull it off

Zelensky chose heart over mind. He choose appearances over substance. He should lick Trump's boots as Ukraine has no direct deterrence or leash on US except reputation, that's it

Possible way to try to mend ties:
 
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luminary

Senior Member
Registered Member
The only think that trickles down is shit and piss.

Trickle down economics is at best pure fantasy, and most likely deliberate fraud by the wealth to justify them stealing the lion share of a nation’s economic wealth for themselves.

The economic reality is that if you want to maximise economic growth, you should distribute wealth to the poor, not the rich.

For poor people, giving them a 1000 of them $1000 extra disposable income each will generate at a minimum $1000 of short term general consumption, since they will have been suppressing consumption previously since they could not afford to consume what they actually need. That $1000 is then likely to balloon into $2-3k additional consumption via the multiplier effect.

But if you give that same $1,000,000 to one billionaire and you are not going to see much if any additional consumption, since the billionaire already had more than enough wealth to consume to the limit of his appetites. At most you might get him buying an extra Rolex or similar hyper-inflated ultra luxury item that generates almost zero multiplier effect, since the profit margins on those are so high it’s basically a parallel closed loop economy where the ultra wealth basically trade amongst themselves and just add a bunch of zeros of the end of prices.

The principle justification for trickle down economics is that concentrating wealth at the top gives those lucky 0.1%ers the opportunity to invest. Which would have been truth if the stock markets weren’t totally divorced from reality, so all the ‘investing’ in stocks and shares only serves to pump an equity bubble instead of leading to anything actually being built that could lead to more employment and increased production.

This is terminal stage capitalism, where greed has been allowed to run rampant so long that the economic indicators and measures of wealth are no longer even approximately correlating with reality that normal economic principles no longer apply.

At the end of the day, at its core, Finance and Economics is supposed to be about the measurement and allocation of finite resources. That doesn’t work at all when you have manufactured phantom ‘wealth’ worth many times your actual resources. The normal result of this is hyperinflation. But the west has managed to create a band-aid to delay the inevitable in the form of Trickle down economics theory.

The fact that trickle down economics is bullshit and doesn’t add consumption and actually suppresses it is precisely why America needs to do it, to trap as much as the excess phantom ‘wealth’ in hyper inflated luxury goods like mega-yachts, sports cars, ‘art’ etc as possible so the inflationary impact doesn’t spill over too much to the general population.

Otherwise imagine what would happen if the trillions of phantom wealth of the top 100 richest people were given to the poor and they immediately went to spend it all on everyday items, hyper inflation as demand vastly outstrips supply.
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Also, no more science
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jiajia99

Junior Member
Registered Member
Ofc it's all a sham. We all know that Ukraine got pushed for war but can't say it openly because some people don't like it lol

Not Trump's fault that Zelensky drank his own kool-aid about great America support and war for liberty and freedom or whatever bs they fed him. It's not like Kissinger himself didn't say how dangerous it is, to be a US ally..

Doesn't matter what they have planned, best you can do in that case is not give any excuse so at least the whole world would plainly see Trump's rogue tactics.

As for supreme maybe it was a bit too much indeed, lets say the first among the two superpowers


No, you still want to retain your calm. Don't forget that this is a global chessboard. Imagine valued Asian US allies watching this. Imagine plain bullying. At least Zelensky could utilize that aspect to promote his agenda. The more unprovocative he is the better his chances because if Asian players see such blatant abandonment they would all (try to) jump ship

In any case, his options are not the best, that's for sure


Agent Krasnov doesn't give two fs about Ukraine. Best Zelensky could have done is quickly sign the deal and pray for the best because then whole world would expect some sort of US protection for such a trade. Nowadays, Zelensky has to understand that the only thing keeping Ukraine on the game is the bad reputational costs that US would incur if it abandoned Ukraine

So the more he looks, and barks like a US dog the more the deterrence for the US to abandon it. It's a complex operation though and I have zero belief that Zelensky could pull it off

Zelensky chose heart over mind. He choose appearances over substance. He should lick Trump's boots as Ukraine has no direct deterrence or leash on US except reputation, that's it

Possible way to try to mend ties:
At the end of this disgusting shit of an affair, none of this is going to end in a way that will benefit the USA, EU and Ukraine. This is going to end in a matter that is going to really screw these people over.
 

Serb

Junior Member
Registered Member
Ofc it's all a sham. We all know that Ukraine got pushed for war but can't say it openly because some people don't like it lol

Not Trump's fault that Zelensky drank his own kool-aid about great America support and war for liberty and freedom or whatever bs they fed him. It's not like Kissinger himself didn't say how dangerous it is, to be a US ally..

Yeah, but it's playing into Trump's game by making it seem that Ukraine/Zelensky "owns" the US something,

We could also say it like this: The US gambled fair and square by giving Ukraine all those resources, hoping to collapse Russia,

It's not the Ukrainian fault then that the West got outproduced later and economically outmaneuvered by Russia fair and square.

It's not the Ukrainian fault that the US got exposed naked and defeated, and that they wasted so much money and weapons.

Trump constantly presents it as if everyone is taking advantage of the US whilst no, at most it's an equal relationship.

Now that the US clearly abandoned him/them, then why should he continue to nod his head to such bullshit?

Doesn't matter what they have planned, best you can do in that case is not give any excuse so at least the whole world would plainly see Trump's rogue tactics.

He managed to keep his composure for 50 minutes, it's only the last 10 minutes he started responding back I think after it got too much. Maybe that's when he realized that there was no hope for what he imagined as the lowest acceptable outcome of the meeting he could use at home.

No, you still want to retain your calm. Don't forget that this is a global chessboard. Imagine valued Asian US allies watching this. Imagine plain bullying. At least Zelensky could utilize that aspect to promote his agenda. The more unprovocative he is the better his chances because if Asian players see such blatant abandonment they would all (try to) jump ship

In any case, his options are not the best, that's for sure


Agent Krasnov doesn't give two fs about Ukraine. Best Zelensky could have done is quickly sign the deal and pray for the best because then whole world would expect some sort of US protection for such a trade. Nowadays, Zelensky has to understand that the only thing keeping Ukraine on the game is the bad reputational costs that US would incur if it abandoned Ukraine

So the more he looks, and barks like a US dog the more the deterrence for the US to abandon it. It's a complex operation though and I have zero belief that Zelensky could it off

I see. You are right. I think that Ukraine is about to be gangbanged, from all sides, in terms of losing nearly everything, however, you think that by Zelensky being even more submissive to Trump's abuse, they maybe had some small chance of retaining something more. Which could be the case. But, Zelensky probably doesn't want to accept it, and he is all coked up, and he probably thinks that they want to replace him anyway. The entire time, before such an intense exchange commenced, in the end, he also many times brought up "getting security" but to no avail. I agree, what you are saying is the most rational for him and for what is left of Ukraine. But, what he did is the best for deteriorating the US and Western image further. We'll see, he is maybe trying to fight to retain power and continue the war through the EU, or be remembered better.
 

Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
it makes sense to get Europe take a bigger role to contain/fund this proxy war. US can then focus on containing China. The good thing is everytime US tries to pivot to focus on China, something else arises to distract them. I'm guessing Israel going to do something against Iran and drag US into it.
 

Serb

Junior Member
Registered Member
it makes sense to get Europe take a bigger role to contain/fund this proxy war. US can then focus on containing China. The good thing is everytime US tries to pivot to focus on China, something else arises to distract them. I'm guessing Israel going to do something against Iran and drag US into it.

This is likely, but you didn't bring up that if Europe focuses on Russia, then it leaves even lower chances of them being able to contribute to the US against China.

China of today is a heavyweight compared to the US and leading in virtually all domains of life, and especially in front of their own shores.

The US raises EU military budgets in Europe forcibly, continuing to crowd out their civil industries and giving Ukraine partially to Russia in some acceptable way to both parties when it saves the US enough face. Buying time, turbo-charging European military industry in the process.

And then have the EU try and contain Russia, and observe, if it tries to pounce again after Ukraine when the US starts dealing with China heavily, and keep it busy.

This looks acceptable at first glance, however, this doesn't account that the US alone was never enough to be able to deal with China alone.
 

SlothmanAllen

Junior Member
Registered Member
Calm down your tone ... this was just a staged trap to offend and ambush him with lies, more lies and stupid provocations! One must not like Zelensky nor his policy, but that was a well prepared drama.

And I can only say it again, the USA have have offended many allies and partners: Anyone who doesn't come, bend the knee and kiss the ring will be ironed out! As if that's strength? ... but as I said, from the point of view that he is a Russian puppet, it all makes sense.

Fucking thank you!

Yoiu do not force allies in line with humiliations, lies and insults … so either he has a strange understanding of putting an alliance together or serves purely egoistic goals.

Exactly!
 
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